Vehicle hard point system

[Grimster]

Originally Posted by Hamma

People seem to be afraid because they seem to think orbital strike launchers, BFG9000's and artillery cannons are going to be placed on every vehicle.

I think something like this has its place but I'm not so sure it's "Worth" the trouble of adding such a system. It would really have to be VERY closely considered and made.

In my personal opinion I doubt we will see hard points added. At least not to every vehicle.

HEY!

A Orbital Striker launcher would be soooooo awesome. I would defiantly get one.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by kaffis

I disagree that hard points add it, though.
Now, that's not to say that I don't desire variety, and a diverse array of options to allow me to find the vehicle/weapons that best fit my desired playstyle. Want to give me the option to run an AA weapon on a heavily armored vehicle? Great! Make a new vehicle, though. That way, the variety and options should just be unique enough to visually identify at a distance, without having to squint and decide whether the gun is 2/3s the normal length, or maybe it just looks shorter because it's at an angle.. and boom, I'm dead.

Now, that's not to say that I don't desire variety, and a diverse array of options to allow me to find the armor/weapons that best fit my desired playstyle. Want to give me the option to run an AA weapon in heavy infantry armor? Great! Make a new armor, though. That way, the variety and options should just be unique enough to visually identify at a distance, without having to squint and decide whether the gun is 2/3s the normal length, or maybe it just looks shorter because it's at an angle.. and boom, I'm dead.


Its interesting because you approach this from an infantry centric point of view. You should not cert too much in vehicles so that you can cert into some infantry stuff. You should not have to guess at what vehicles can field, but infantry and MAXs, fine.

Why is it fine that infantry armors have a huge range of customization, but vehicles do not? Because there are more vehicles than infantry armors? Sure, but thats a symptom of the problem.. Too many vehicles. Make fewer. You don't need the buggies, harasser, AND skyguard if you can swap weapons, as the chassis all have pretty similar characteristics.


As for the cert costs of specialization.. Look at the whole CE tree(10 certs)? Unimax(6)? Hacking(9)? MA/HA/AV(9)?

Meanwhile the tanks, the backbone of the outdoor game and one of the best all around units... 3 whole certs.

So what if it cost 6 or 8 certs to get the tank + extra weapons? Its not like there aren't things you can focus on that don't cost more.

It becomes even more fair if the bonus weapons require the gunner to have the certs, rather than the driver. Split the costs evenly.

[kaffis]

It is an interesting point you bring up, CutterJohn, that I consider the vehicles and infantry somewhat separately in this regard.

I think it stems from three things:

The ranges at which you need to make choices about infantry combat are much closer, and allow you to make out the weapon alright, for the most part. (As I just got done saying in another post before I read this one, I can recognize a rocklet rifle vs. a repeater at 40m well enough; they have distinctive shapes.) In addition, infantry combat is rife with cover and hearing stuff approach. This means that I can see explosions around the corner, and know that I've got somebody with grenades down the hall to face, even though we're not engaged yet.

As an infantry combatant, I have access to multiple guns since I've got 2-4 holsters. This means I'm better able to adapt to misjudging the situation. (I've got a thumper and gauss rifle, and see somebody armed with a repeater approaching. I like my chances. Oh, wait, he's closing on my position and has pulled out a MCG? Okay, I can take some cover and apply indirect fire with my thumper to try to mitigate my bad call.)

Important infantry combats are almost always determined by large numbers of mixed arms. This means you can go by a kind of law of averages, as it were. Okay, about 30 guys approaching the gate; there's probably 10 HA, 5 AV, 10 MA, and maybe 5 SA approaching. Vehicular combat rarely has that kind of sample size.


Finally, MAXes and infantry are all vulnerable to the same types of weapons, and don't have enough HP relative to weapons to really draw out fights, so even if you're not positive exactly what weapon they may have, you know whether what you've got can kill him. If I've got a deliverer against a prowler, I can kill the prowler -- but the fight will be so protracted that I'm dead before I can. If he's somehow equipped skyguard flak, then I'll have that time. With infantry, that's not as much a concern. If I've got a gauss rifle and no AP rounds, I'm not going to engage the MAX no matter what.

I don't know. I think I'm rambling now, and may not be making any sense. I don't know that my position is entirely solid to begin with.

As far as certs go, though, if you feel that CE and tanks are inappropriately weighted as far as cert costs go, I think that's a perfectly valid observation. Perhaps CE is too piecemeal, and should have some of its sub-certs combined. Does it /need/ all the granularity? Maybe not. Or maybe tank certs are too cheap, and they're really as strong or stronger than CE. Fine, bump up the cost on them; now's the ideal time to do so while the game's in development and you're not sucking away an established character's cert points to hold onto the build he's played with for 2 years.

[Hamma]

kaffis,

Very awesome points I had not thought about myself. Great contribution to the thread!

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Hamma

kaffis,

Very awesome points I had not thought about myself. Great contribution to the thread!

Thanks, sir! I figure that if you're digging up and brib-- err, cajoling -- the only news, screenshots, and other goodies on PSN out of Sony that I can find, the least I can do is contribute to the discussions. =)