New AV Launcher feedback - Page 4

Badjuju · 2013-03-24, 06:13 PM

So the Phoenix is the ultimate AI troll cannon. I am wasting infantry at full sprint left and right with this thing lol. Snipers , AV turrets, and Lancer users have it even worse. I actually started spotting my targets before shooting to make sure i wasn't taking out this poor sniper that I got 5 or 6 times because I felt so bad for him.

It is ok at taking out vehicles, but far more effective against infantry. If i see some one repairing their vehicle, I just take him out instead of hitting the tank. There are abandoned tanks all over Auraxis.

Of course, when I tried using the Lancer today, i was taking phoenix rounds to the face left and right.

Why does this thing one shot infantry lol. It is just babytown frolics.

Striker - best launcher in the game, I think it is fine the way it is.
Phoenix- remove 1 shot infantry kills and give it more range, maneuverability, or both.
Lancer- There is no circumstance where dumb fire rockets or the annihilator is not more viable. It feels clumsy, has a very drawn out firing mechanic, leaves you very vulnerable as you cant strafe and maintain ranged accuracy, and is just boring to use in comparison to its PS1 variant.

Rbstr · 2013-03-24, 06:59 PM

After a weekend of Lancer use these are my thoughts:
It's got some good points (someone else said they loved the noise, I do too) and I really like the concept (as in I think the mechanics are fine, they just need adjustment) but overall its just not very useful.

It really doesn't put down enough damage to justify the limiting mechanics. I get that we don't want it to just swat aircraft but two charged shots should put an ESF on fire like you'd get with any other dumb launcher. Your entire ammo capacity, in full-charges, unloaded into a liberator can't bring it down. Lame.
Sacrificing so much up-close usefulness should correspond to long range usefulness. Right now, sure you have range, but you make no impact. Sort of "just because you can doesn't mean you should".
This isn't the best analogy, but what if bolt/semi auto sniper rifles did less damage per bullet than an AR to justify their precision and range? They wouldn't be useful at all. That's kind of where we are with the lancer.

Then, at medium ranges, it's far more prudent to to lob the dumb rockets, even with the risk of missing, because you're super exposed when trying to let off a charged shot, as you need to have 4/5 seconds before a shot (charging and moving from cover being impossible without being able to ADS during charge...I know it's supposed to be a bug) and single shots amount to hardly anything.

What I'd do? Either make it do more damage or tweak the mechanics (wouldn't do all of them, just one):
Remove one magazine of spare ammo and make it have the TTK of a deci when fully charged. Buff single-shots so they do maybe 25% of a full thing instead of the supposed 20?
Lower the charge time significantly, like two seconds. Still buff single-shots.
Make the charge persistent. You can charge it up fully. Put it away and take it out and it's still ready to go. That gives you a bit of general utility while keeping the extended-use utility roughly the same.

Also: let us put some magnification on it. All the RL's really, they've got the rails.

I think they did a pretty good job on the Striker. It's actually powerful (ok, maybe a bit too powerfull) but with the expense of counter-ability and no anti-max. If you're a lock-on launcher user it's a pure upgrade. That's OK, as long as the other empire launchers are legitimately powerful options too. Better TTK than any other RL for sure.

The Phoenix is decent, it could stand to do a bit more damage or be a bit more maneuverable. I haven't used it much to judge. One the receiving end we lost a lot of sundy spots, that's ok. But killing infantry in one hit with it is super bullshit and it does happen.

TL;DR - Range doesn't mean much when you can't do anything with it.

Whiteagle · 2013-03-24, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Mustakrakish

Phoenix

Very disappointed that it makes missile noises instead of a face-melting guitar riff that dopplers as it nears the target.

...I think even those of us on the receiving end all agree that this WOULD BE AWESOME!!!

...Also, this is so totally not a stealth nerf ploy on its anti-infantry capablilities...

So from what I can tell, the only ES Launcher here people are really unhappy with is the Lancer?

...How OK would everyone be if it got a damage buff?
...Like a HUGE damage buff, to the point where it wouldn't be safe for the user to unleash a full-charged shot at close range because the splash damage might kill him as well?

I'm thinking that would make the Striker a Faction-Annihilator Upgrade, the Phoenix a Faction-AV Mana Turret Upgrade, and the Lancer gets to be a Faction-Super charged sniping Decimator Upgrade that might kill you if your not careful...

...So how does that sound?

Blinklys · 2013-03-24, 08:54 PM

I wonder if the devs are happy with these ESRL, and if they really think they are balanced and working as intended.

Remove OHK on infantry for the Phoenix and for god sake do something to improve the usefullness of the Lancer.

I flat out don't believe Highby when he said the Lancer was his favorite. That's a blatant lie.

Rbstr · 2013-03-24, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Blinklys

I flat out don't believe Highby when he said the Lancer was his favorite. That's a blatant lie.

It's pretty cool. It can be your favorite without being the best you know.

NUKABAZOOKA · 2013-03-25, 12:06 AM

Dragonskin · 2013-03-25, 12:25 AM

I don't think I have seen a VS with a lancer yet on Waterson. Last night there were tons of Phoenixs going off when we went up against DVS on Amerish. Those are pretty sick. I think I got rocket sniped 2-3 times. They looked cool streaking through the sky. They were blue balls of death.

I got the Striker and the thing is nice, but it has a long lock timer and things can be kinda tricky to get the lock on in the first place. Like Flashes and Liberators are noticeably harder to lock than ESFs and MBTs/Lightnings. All in all tonight we sat in a squad at Mesa Comms overlooking Zurvan Amp Station and just took out 20-30 different vehicles and turrets. It was cool seeing all the red volleys of little death balls flying through the sky at night. Probably 5-6 of us with Strikers calling targets. The striker feels pretty balanced. It's not going to kill anything outright without warning.. unlike the Phoenix..

I guess the lancer needs a buff.. no one is using it. I tested it in the VR and it was pretty under whelming. I might get on my VS and trail it tomorrow. I like my Striker a lot, I still have to switch out to my dumbfire when I get inside a base or bio lab.

Hosp · 2013-03-25, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Badjuju

Striker - best launcher in the game, I think it is fine the way it is.
Phoenix- remove 1 shot infantry kills and give it more range, maneuverability, or both.
Lancer- There is no circumstance where dumb fire rockets or the annihilator is not more viable. It feels clumsy, has a very drawn out firing mechanic, leaves you very vulnerable as you cant strafe and maintain ranged accuracy, and is just boring to use in comparison to its PS1 variant.

I'm going to go and agree with this.

NUKABAZOOKA · 2013-03-27, 04:41 PM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...dTJpM1E&gid=25

EXTREMELY telling.

Assist · 2013-03-27, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by NUKABAZOOKA

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...dTJpM1E&gid=25

EXTREMELY telling.

Population statistics are not the best thing in the world to base balance off of.
Least purchased, least used, lowest score average are all meaningless as they're all completely based on population. The only statistic there that may be considered relevant is the avg. vehicle kills/hr and it's not that far behind the Phoenix.

Rumblepit · 2013-03-27, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

Population statistics are not the best thing in the world to base balance off of.
Least purchased, least used, lowest score average are all meaningless as they're all completely based on population. The only statistic there that may be considered relevant is the avg. vehicle kills/hr and it's not that far behind the Phoenix.

PHOENIX

528 kills
0.56 kills /m .... a little over 17 hrs
33% accuracy
3,451 shots fired
0 headshots
1,141 hit count
143,394 xp .............. 95% of the kills are via infantry ... i know the guy.

RSphil · 2013-03-27, 07:37 PM

the one problem i have is the striker lock on is bugged for turrets. it locks on but hits the base and so does no damage. the flight path seems a little off as well. zig zags some times on the way to ground vehicles.

the other 2 seem ok. only used the VS one in the VR training area as im not keen on VS but have the NC and TR rocket launchers on my chars and enjoy them both. the NC one has potential but takes some time to get used to.

Lonehunter · 2013-03-27, 07:45 PM

Only have time to talk about the Pheonix.

I think the speed you can turn it is balanced.

I look forward to the Night Vision they add that makes infantry harder to see at long distances to make it more advantageous towards vehicles but not nerf it's damage when you do manage to hit an infantry.

My only issue is it's overall DPS. Damage per shot I think it's just as good if better then the Lancer or Striker shots, but it just takes so long to get another shot ready. They've all ready addressed this by a small reload time reduction, but we don't even start reloading till after the explosion.

The Pheonix certainly seems it's most powerful on the back of a Flash. I finally got to rock it with other Flash Pheonix outfitmates and it's great against lightnings and infantry and we started to manage how to take tanks.

Blinklys · 2013-03-27, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Rbstr

It's pretty cool. It can be your favorite without being the best you know.

I don't buy it. He is clearly biased and a liar.

AThreatToYou · 2013-03-27, 09:22 PM

So, guys, who knew the Phoenix would be an anti-infantry weapon? I mean, it murders Lightnings and Prowlers and shit, but still... it's... ridiculous! It's ridiculously good!
TBH I'd buff the other two ES launchers before I nerfed the Phoenix. Then again, the random instagibs that the enemy empires are suffering might be.. too much. Plus I was sniping MAXes apparently safe behind cover; I hope it won't take too long for them to get the message so we don't have to nerf the phoenix.

Then again, I hear the Striker murders vehicles.