Has there been news of a buff for NC MAX?

[BRUTALPLAYS]

I have played all three factions extensively and NC's MAX is in no way under powered (in my opinion). It seems to me like there are people that use shotguns incorrectly and are getting unpleasant experiences because of it. If I equip myself with the Thanatos (my favorite shotgun) I can get kill streaks with shotguns just as easy as with any other weapon. I choose my engagements based on my weapon and I usually take angles that will (hopefully) put me at an advantage and get me the kill(s).

Now if I load up a NC MAX with hacksaws, and run out like I am operating a ZOE with Blueshifts, of coarse I am going to have a bad time. You have to use the NC MAX differently and I think that is where this "under powered" talk is coming from. I have used stock NC MAX and gotten 10+ kill streaks easily, just as I have with the hacksaw loadout.

And to end this post: To call any MAX under powered is, in my opinion, a joke.

[VikingKong]

Originally Posted by almalino

it is very hard to kill with NC MAX unless you are very close to enemy soldiers.

So only fight at that optimal range? Charge at them or make them come to you (and your grinders). I don't see the problem. It just requires you to be a bit smarter than them. When you're fighting TR and VS, that ain't hard.
I love my max. And not just because the other two are fugly.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by BRUTALPLAYS

I have played all three factions extensively and NC's MAX is in no way under powered (in my opinion). It seems to me like there are people that use shotguns incorrectly and are getting unpleasant experiences because of it. If I equip myself with the Thanatos (my favorite shotgun) I can get kill streaks with shotguns just as easy as with any other weapon. I choose my engagements based on my weapon and I usually take angles that will (hopefully) put me at an advantage and get me the kill(s).

Now if I load up a NC MAX with hacksaws, and run out like I am operating a ZOE with Blueshifts, of coarse I am going to have a bad time. You have to use the NC MAX differently and I think that is where this "under powered" talk is coming from. I have used stock NC MAX and gotten 10+ kill streaks easily, just as I have with the hacksaw loadout.

And to end this post: To call any MAX under powered is, in my opinion, a joke.

No a joke is to say the NC MAX is anywhere near as good as the TR/VS one the NC MAX is great in very confined areas, sadly there isn't many areas that are confined enough for it to find use, basically labs are the only place you'll really be using them to great effect everywhere else the open ground results in them dying horribly while not hitting anything.

The VS and TR MAX has options to fight at longer ranges, the NC MAX has no options we have mega short range or nothing, just because in 1 very specific situation the NC MAX is usable does NOT make it balance in any way shape or form. You can nerf all the sodding shotguns by 90% for all I care just give us a machine gun of some sort so we have the option for short and long range and stop trying to claim 1 lucky streak in a very cramped area makes it fine. Everytime I try out the VS MAX I get 10+ kill streaks with complete ease no matter the setting, inside, outside, labs, tech plants, small bases big bases, it works all over!. The NC MAX though I'm lucky to get 1 kill with it as the starting loadout is awful as hell and even with a good loadout you need to be in a biolab in certain rooms for it to work.

You know what I would love to see happen... I'd love to see the TR and VS MAXs guns all have their effective range reduced to that of a shotgun and see how long they keep up with this *oh you can only kill people at 0m, why don't you only fight at 0m then in this huge expansive world?* Thanks genious I'll put that in my notebook is amazingly useful things such as *to not die don't get shot* and *to kill people make them have no life* Do you see people saying *but I shoot people at 100m with shotgun and it no worky* NO we are complaining about the sodding shotguns and only having an effective range of 5m in a HUGE EXPANSIVE WORLD!!!

Jesus christ how have other NC not gone insane from these idiots trying to ensure our MAX stays useless with their dumb counter arguments?

[maradine]

The reality is that over the set of all servers, circumstances, and locations, the NC AI MAX is a better kill producer than the TR AI MAX. You don't have to like it, and you can come up with a hundred reasons for it, but it is true.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by maradine

The reality is that over the set of all servers, circumstances, and locations, the NC AI MAX is a better kill producer than the TR AI MAX. You don't have to like it, and you can come up with a hundred reasons for it, but it is true.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true.. theres lots and lots of evidence showing that the NC MAX is vastly underpowered compared to other MAXs, you making something up doesn't counter that at all.

The only range that a NC MAX is a better killer than a TR MAX is the 5-0m range, and even then its not a huge difference and the TR MAX actually have some guns that are better at that range.

Its sad to see people just flat out lying to try and keep the NC MAX as the most gimped thing in the whole game. The worst part being that as its about 2/3 of the population spouting this crap SOE believe it... Ever wonder why you always see TR and VS MAXs in general fighting but not NC MAXs? its cos the NC MAX is only really useful for a MAX rush to a point, every other circumstance of general fighting them do so badly people don't bother with them generally. And they aren't even as good as other MAXs for the rush, we only use them cos they take a lot of hits so make a good first wave to soak up the bullets so the other classes can mop the enemy up

[bites]

Originally Posted by maradine

The misconception is that over the set of all servers, circumstances, and locations, the NC AI MAX is a better kill producer than the TR AI MAX. You don't have to like it, and you can come up with a hundred reasons for it, but the plethora of stats published and discussed at length elsewhere numerous times are true.

FTFY

Really looking forward to your statistical analysis since just yelling "YOU'RE WRONG" or "I DONT AGREE" doesn't really prove shit.

[BRUTALPLAYS]

Originally Posted by War Barney

I'd love to see the TR and VS MAXs guns all have their effective range reduced to that of a shotgun and see how long they keep up with this *oh you can only kill people at 0m, why don't you only fight at 0m then in this huge expansive world?*

Firstly, the VS and TR weapons do not throw as many projectiles down range in the time the scatter cannons do. So if the damage and range were all the same, the TR/VS would be way outclassed by the scatter cannons. In order to maintain balance you would need to make the TR/VS weapons put a similar amount of projectiles down rage in the same time. And by doing that you would take out the variety that comes with each faction.

I am glad to have the maxes the way they are. I do think ZOE is more useful then the other abilities, but I think the weaponry is fine for each faction.

Originally Posted by War Barney

Thanks genious...these idiots...dumb counter arguments?

Why the insults? Do you think it is effective to add stuff like that to your post?

By the way, you misspelled genius.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by ringring

But notice what he says too, he effectively said he was hanging back away from the door because of scatmaxes inside and they were better at close range.

And with HMGs you have the option to stay back to stay back. You can even double that range and still be able to put enough rounds in a door to suppress the enemy. Granted 40-50m (that's about double of the 3:00 mark in that video) is pushing it for everything but Blueshifts but you have that option and the ammo to keep it up.

Flip the video around. Put a NC MAX in the recorders place and TR behind that door. Shotguns at that range would be useless as by then they are at the limp damage and have spreads that would are bigger than a door. Slugs could work but there's the reload times and the massive amount of them you need to deal with an enemy MAX before armors.


-BRUTALPLAYS-

One man means nothing in PS2. As well as comparing infantry shotgun play to MAXes. Infantry has speed, MAXes do not and that is exactly what a shotgun needs. One step, one meter, can make a shotgun fail.

Here's a small test you can do. Go into the VR as a NC Hacksaw MAX and put a waypoint on a target MAX. Back slowly and the moment the distance hits 10m fire to kill. Now back just enough to where it just turns 11m and fire to kill again. You should get 2 very different shell to kill counts, to the point where even extended mags isn't enough ammo to get a kill.

One meter, one step, is enough to make a fight impossible. The same can be said for any shotgun. Maybe not the same 10-11m range but the idea is the same.

I got a HUGE laugh out of the sniper blow back from a notice of a 150m hard cap to one hit kills that isn't going to happen for weeks to months. Every NC MAX and shotgun user has been living with that same hard cap but ours is 10-15m. 1/10 of the recent rage and smaller than every room in the game but 1-3.

Iv done the math and did a LOT of in game testing to back it up. Shotguns may be good in the hands of a few but I will always fucking hate them for the lack of options.
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ing-ai.139234/

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by maradine

The reality is that over the set of all servers, circumstances, and locations, the NC AI MAX is a better kill producer than the TR AI MAX. You don't have to like it, and you can come up with a hundred reasons for it, but it is true.

I love that you dug into the API and pulled massive KPU data for us but this doesn't sound right. Your KPU data, while useful, isn't very good at comparing weapon types.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=1

Your link from earlier. NC KPU is better than TR but is destroyed by the VS. Problem is, or better form, the question is.

What is the normal KPU for each weapon type?

The same is asked for K/D. Some weapon should have better K/D or KPU from their type having a higher normal. The way I see it you can't use KPU across weapon types if they have different normals. TR and VS MAX KPU is comparable but I can't say if NC MAX KPU should be tossed into that mess.

[BRUTALPLAYS]

Originally Posted by Chewy

One man means nothing in PS2. As well as comparing infantry shotgun play to MAXes. Infantry has speed, MAXes do not and that is exactly what a shotgun needs. One step, one meter, can make a shotgun fail.

I used that example to express my belief that shotguns are a perfectly viable weapon in this game and should be used to their strengths. I Used the Thanatos as an example because my faction doesn't have shotguns for MAX.

Originally Posted by Chewy

Go into the VR as a NC Hacksaw MAX and put a waypoint on a target MAX. Back slowly and the moment the distance hits 10m fire to kill. Now back just enough to where it just turns 11m and fire to kill again. You should get 2 very different shell to kill counts

I have spent a lot of time playing each faction, and I am very familiar with the NC MAX. While what you are saying may be true, it is also very easy to play in a way that mitigates the effect of DPS drop off.

When I play NC MAX I try my best to close the gap on engagements (and potential engagements). I use the sprint to close the gap, and I choose angles that will put me in front of the enemy in close distance. While playing NC MAX; I do not run across the main floor of a bio lab, I do not run in the garage area of towers, I do not play in the field. I take corners closely and I fight in small, enclosed, areas. When I do those things, I rack up kill streaks just the same way I do in my ZOE. Now on the flip side, when I am in my ZOE I often camp stairways, bio lab floor, tower rooms, immediate outdoor areas (just outside towers and spawn rooms). I do not try to 1v1 scatter maxes in CQC, I do not rush points, I do not run far from cover.

I am just saying that, in my experience, intelligent play style is what wins fights. If I play smart with the most under powered gun in game I can maintain a positive KD. If I play foolishly with the most 1337 loadout available to man, I will die, and when I die I will go to forumside and about how UP my weapons are.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by BRUTALPLAYS

I used that example to express my belief that shotguns are a perfectly viable weapon in this game and should be used to their strengths. I Used the Thanatos as an example because my faction doesn't have shotguns for MAX.



I have spent a lot of time playing each faction, and I am very familiar with the NC MAX. While what you are saying may be true, it is also very easy to play in a way that mitigates the effect of DPS drop off.

When I play NC MAX I try my best to close the gap on engagements (and potential engagements). I use the sprint to close the gap, and I choose angles that will put me in front of the enemy in close distance. While playing NC MAX; I do not run across the main floor of a bio lab, I do not run in the garage area of towers, I do not play in the field. I take corners closely and I fight in small, enclosed, areas. When I do those things, I rack up kill streaks just the same way I do in my ZOE. Now on the flip side, when I am in my ZOE I often camp stairways, bio lab floor, tower rooms, immediate outdoor areas (just outside towers and spawn rooms). I do not try to 1v1 scatter maxes in CQC, I do not rush points, I do not run far from cover.

I am just saying that, in my experience, intelligent play style is what wins fights. If I play smart with the most under powered gun in game I can maintain a positive KD. If I play foolishly with the most 1337 loadout available to man, I will die, and when I die I will go to forumside and about how UP my weapons are.

<facepalm> Really... so your saying it balanced that a NC MAX can kill things at a 10m range but other MAXs can be 5x further away because they can try to get close.. so your solution is to bum rush huge groups of people or hope people run around a corner into you...

You sound like a great player.... *hold on guys I'm just going to run right into that group of 20 people! hope you engis can keep up with my charge to heal me* or *ok guys I'm going to camp this corner in a building! im so helpful*

Do you actually believe this crap your spewing or are you just scared of a Nc MAX that works?

[OCNSethy]

Barney... we get it. I actually agree with you but at this point SOE has not indicated any balance pass on any maxs at this stage.

This thread is running the risk of devolving into a cluster frag... if it hasnt aready done so

[War Barney]

True =( its just so infuriating.

For those who don't play NC just imagine this.

You have a class that is vastly underpowered compared to other factions equivilent, you quit for a while but the last thing you heard on the class was a huge post of tests done with video evidence and all the stats showing beyond a doubt that the class is underpowered and needs a buff.

then imagine you come back 6 months later to find no buffs.. you ask if any are inbound and not only find they aren't but get people saying the class is fine / overpowered instead even though its obvious to everybody that its vastly underpowered.

After imagining that you will understand why its hard to not get infuriated by this, especially with certain people just lying to try and make it seem like the NC MAX is fine.

Hell I'd be happy if they just said *We are looking into it*, even if it took months for them to balance it I'd be happy just knowing they are doing something, but instead all I see is people trying to convince people that its fine with stupid arguments like *well why don't you make sure all the fights you have in a NC MAX are the 1% of situation where a NC MAX isn't useless, that'll sort it!*.

[OCNSethy]

Originally Posted by War Barney

True =( its just so infuriating.

~snip~.

Sent you a PM

Edit: Lets see what SOE has in mind...

[BRUTALPLAYS]

Originally Posted by War Barney

You sound like a great player...crap your spewing

Whats up with the insults? What did I do to offend you? Or is this just the way you talk to people on any given day? Perhaps you refuse the idea that you are using your MAX wrong and your only imaginable reaction is to insult me. Either way, I am going to stop this bickering and move myself to a more productive conversation.

By the way, I don't rely on pubs to keep me alive. I play it smart, I don't put myself in positions to be killed so easily, and I use auto repair. Judging based on the way you respond to me, I am guessing that you play like the baddies I farm on a typical day.