Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?

[Kilmoran]

Originally Posted by The Degenatron

I said "No" to "quick attacks" all together.

Frankly, I find it a little rediculous that a knife would be ANYTHING but a last resort of a desperate fighter.

When all other options are gone do I reach for my knife.

It also encourages a less tactical style of play. I hate it when people go for a knife kill when they have a magazine full of bullets and die half-way to their target. You could have shot that guys, moved the line forward, and helped the cause, but instead you acted like an idiot because you wanted to up your knife KDR. Give me a break!

My second choice would be the rifle butt. But it shouldn't kill. It should only stun with a head shot on any soldier less than a Heavy Assault. Heavies and Maxes should be unhurt by it.

I know there are people who just LOVE knife kills, but to me that's just waving you E-Peen around when you should be helping the team instead.

Bullets are noisy, most of the time. Ammo, especially as an infiltrator, could be at a premium. Generally, you had to get just as close for most pistols in PS 1 any how to get the kill, and it was far more noticable and took longer to kill with a pistol against rexo than it did the melee boosted knife. I assure you... you can help the team just fine with a knife in Planet Side. Maybe not other games, but definitely this one. Maybe PS 2 will follow that idea.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by WildVS

Let me ask you a question Dart. Something I have pondering with on these forums for a while . Do you view higher TTK as requiring more, less or equivalent skill as low TTK? Just in general.

Hell anyone can weigh in if you want and perhaps this isnt best thread for this but it just crossed my mind.

I'll give you the short answer, in the interests of not derailing the thread, but i believe a shorter TTK places the emphasis on a slightly different skill set to a longer one. I imagine dominating PS2 will require just as much skill as PS1 did, but in slightly different areas.

[KILLFACE]

[rekefant]

Dont do quick knife insta kill. Riflebash on the other hand dont seems stupid IF you dont deal significant damage with it just push back and a slight stun, melee isnt a focus in FPS, but CQC happens and then a rifle bash would be realistic. An equip knife would be logical to have for numerous reason, all mentioned earlier.

[Nasher]

I think it should be like planetside 1.

You should have to equip it like a proper knife hero.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by WildVS

Yeah like I said before, this is a decent and realistic compromise. Workable if nothing else.

But no one has yet told me why this 'compromise'is necessary at all? What is wrong with JUST having the equipped knife? You were just talking about raising skill levels in comparison to modern shooters (which i agree with by the way) so why do you want to find an easy solution which detracts from that aim?

[megamold]

Originally Posted by Kilmoran

It does happen all the time for me... in PS 1. The knife is my primary weapon of choice. Though i have killed far more without it... it is still my weapon of choice. I can be stealthy, i can distract with he noise, I can destroy infantry with it as well as any sniper. It is my tool of the trade... and it is not about how "cool" it is... even though i do enjoy the hunt. It is about how useful it is for what I do beyond simply killing people. Especially in PS 1... the only weapon i know i will have as an infiltrator all the time, is my knife.

as it should be for an infiltrator

not so much for any other class

[berzerkerking]

Originally Posted by therandomone

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.

I love this, but I'm all for bayonets as an additional cert added to slow draw knifing. The weight would slow down the character adding to the stategy portion of it.
I tend to bring a knife to a gunfight, and charge while you reload, hence the name Berzerkerking. Knives FTW cuz their shiny

[basti]

Quick knive should not be in the game, as it is in fact OP, or useless.

The moment Quick melee is capable to kill someone with one hit, or even just capable to kill someone who is lightly damaged, its OP. Simply sprint around, shoot those far away, melee those close. Done id COD, its completly stupid.

If its not capable to do that, then why risk spending time to melee and NOT kill the enemy if you could instead reload and kill the enemy + be ready for the next guy coming along.

Away with Quick melee!

[ZeroOneZero]

Yup, infiltrator only, other classes get gun bashing. Knifing is only for bragging rights for other classes, seeing how there are ammo packs now.

[Hermes]

The only quick melee I would like to see is a zero damage one. It's real strength is in making your character feel more real when in close and out of ammo.(Knives should be an equipped damage dealer)

Rifle butt:

- Cooldown (no spam)
- No FF
- Does no damage
- COF blooms, pushes them back a couple of steps

Uses when out of bullets or in a tight spot:

- Can try to force a reload window if you are in close
- Can push a hacker from a terminal in a desperate moment
- Can disrupt someone gunning down your mates

Uses when not out of bullets or normal play:

- Pushing a sniper hilariously off an edge and remembering worms
- Little else.



Plus this way you could give them the butt then both barrels between the eyes for extra cinematics.

[Metalsheep]

Im against Melee in a FPS period, unless its a specific weapon. I.E. The Sword and Gravity Hammer from Halo.

Your fist/knife should be a last resort weapon that does little damage for when you are out of Ammo. The focus in a first person Shooter should be to Shoot. You see it in nearly all modern FPS where the Melee attack is usually the Primary or Secondary weapon with the most kills for a large portion of the playerbase, when it should be one of the last weapons you get kills with.

No quick knife, make it equippable like in Planetside, and keep it around 5 hits to kill someone without Secondary Mode, also no autoaim/lunge.

[Sledgecrushr]

A bayonet would satisfy me pretty good. I am just having a real hard time getting into a handheld knofe actually doing any damage to someone in armor. A bayonet to me would both look cool and be a plausible force in whatever kind of melee combat ps2 would habe to offer. Plus i think it would be cool to say "we are outta ammo boyz, fix bayonets and prepare to charge"

[WolfAlmighty]

I'm fine with a one-hit-kill knife but only under three conditions (all of which must be met):

1) The knife is equippable, so no quick knife or dedicated melee button

2) You attack the soldier from behind. As fascinating as the breakdown by therandomone was, fact is you're not going to kill a soldier wearing body armour that's confronting you in a single knife stab. From the front or side, it should be at least three hits for a knife kill for someone at full health.

3) No auto-aim/lunge. As Stardouser mentioned, this got to the point of being absurd in Bad Company 2, where you'd just go into a building where enemies were and press your melee button and your soldier would literally pivot 90 degrees or leap across the room and insta-kill the nearest enemy. There are times when I had shot someone square in the chest at 5m with some 12 ga. from an 870 and he proceeds to fly across the room and OHK me with his knife. I realise there's lag and such to be considered, but just no.

[Zolan]

I like the idea of rifle butts and pistol whips for quick-combat melee that does minimal damage or pushes someone backwards slightly. Something like the current MAX melee attacks.

Quick-strike knife kills, on the other hand, are the bane of FPS games.
Especially given how unrealistically (where realism counts) they are used in most FPS games.


You only need a knife in one of two situations (maybe three).

1. You are completely out of ammo.

- 1b. Someone else runs out of ammo and pulls out a knife. You want to be honorable and pull out your knife as well.

2. You are playing an infiltrator focusing on cloaking/melee attacks


Equip-able knife is the way to go.