Sniping Mechanics and Headshots

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Forsaken One

They were not. They played the support role a sniper is SUPPOSE to play. calling out threats, scouting areas, picking off weakened targets or softening targets up.

A sniper shouldn't even be shooting his gun unless its a VERY important target as after the shot he'll be forced to change his spot and as such be unable to recon, call things out, and just be unable to fulfill his support dutys till he's in a new spot.

overall snipers job is not to be a killwhore, and it shouldn't be in a game ether.

They were. Trust a member of 2 tactical outfits and one of the first auraxium snipers. Just saying.

Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER

I don't want to see how crazy it is in Battlefield 3 where sniping on big maps makes people scared to go out in the open. It's like the map 2Fort is ruined purely because of the lack of action in middle half the time. Why is this? Because Snipers are so OP there that everyone camps in their base or goes under. Once you get rid of them suddenly middle turns into a mad house and the game is fun again.

This statement is an exaggeration. I'm a medic there and I survive perfectly. All heals and rez's included. You see in BF you have limited amount of vehicles. The only counter to snipers except for other snipers is helicopter that usually doesn't give a fuck. In PS (especially in PS2) - 1 player = 1 vehicle. Anywhere anytime he wants it.

Thus:

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

You are not going to see a glut of snipers when mixed arms is the only way to win.

The statement I tend to agree with.

[Vancha]

Again, I'm seeing way too many assumptions about the nature of a cloaking device we know near to nothing about, and the state of sniping in Planetside 2 which we know next to nothing about.

Originally Posted by Forsaken One

When the game gets to the point( lets say in a year.) where all the skilled snipers and all the skilled jet flyers (I'm thinking battlefield2 style air where people bullshit that air takes skill to fly to defend the overpowered bullshit.) start to just shit all over everyone and even more so new players the games going to suck.

Assuming too much about the impact of skills.

Originally Posted by texico

If PS2's field battles are anything like PS1's, you'll have groups of 10 or 15 snipers on a hill overlooking the front line well within their empire's forces, sniping people with one-shot kills, meaning infantry can't step out in the open.

Assuming too much about the ease of performing a one-shot kill.

Originally Posted by texico

Maybe the mechanics, with bullet arcs and recoil or whatever, could make it difficult enough that landing a one-shot kill is as difficult as landing two shots in PlanetSide, but even then, what's the point? All it means is the player getting hit has NO chance. No warning, no ability to react, they just drop dead. I recon tons of people will quickly learn the skill necessary to get one-shot kills if it's possible, and they'll find a way to overcome all the other variables.

Assuming too much about the lack of forewarning and the ability to perfect a one-shot kill.

Originally Posted by texico

With one-hit kill sniping, you can't move on the open road at all, more or less ever. Because of the zero reaction time to being one-hit killed you can't adapt your game to being engaged. The only say you have is to not be in that position where you can be shot, ever.

Assuming too much about so many things, including who'll be vulnerable to one-shot kills.

Originally Posted by texico

People won't go outside as infantry near a body of enemies, and there won't be infantryside battles near the front line because people get one-hit-killed too much, or at least, the battles will be less intense and diminished.

Again assuming too much about the frequency and reliability of one-shot kills.

Originally Posted by Gandhi

Now imagine if it had no delay at all. That kind of gameplay is never fun, regardless of what it is. Making it hard doesn't do anything to address this, and besides no matter how hard it is people will always get good at it. "It'll be hard" is a terrible justification for any game mechanic.

Assuming too much about forewarning of being sniped and reliability of one-shot kills.

Originally Posted by texico

Well as I've said, what the player deserves or whether they should bottle up and get over it is fine to say, but ultimately if they do get over it, they'll change their game in a way that demotes the presence of infantry in field battles.

Assuming too much about who'll be vulnerable to one-shot kills.

Originally Posted by texico

And also, "standing around" is as a lot of people are suggesting a person dying from a one-shot kill would be doing is pretty exaggerated. You can be sniped with a one-shot kill even if moving,

Assuming too much about the reliability of one-shot kills.

Originally Posted by texico

if a sniper's following you with his scope you only have to stop for a moment, and most of the useful things infantry would be doing within the body of their empire in a battle would mean standing still - healing yourself or others, repairing vehicles, laying mines and spitfire turrets or field turrets, using a CUD, boarding and leaving vehicles, none of these things would be possible if people are waiting to snipe you.

Wouldn't they? If a sniper is following someone with their scope, they'll be leading their target. If the target stops moving, not only does the sniper need to readjust his shot, but also compensate for bullet drop and wind. Also, if he's stopped to heal, presumably he'd die in one shot whether shot in the head or not?

Originally Posted by texico

A, Getting killed with no ability to react or in any way prevent their death post-engagement
B, This is happening regularly because of the number of people doing it

Again, assuming too much about the reliability of one-shot kills and the lack of forewarning that it's about to happen.

Originally Posted by Forsaken One

The game will just devolve to the point the only people having fun are the "skilled" ones shitting all over the people trying to play a video game for fun.

Assuming too much about the impact of skills, the skill ceiling of sniping, the ability to reliably one-shot enemies and even that someone playing a video game for fun doesn't enjoy getting shot in the head...although they probably don't.

Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER

...and very rarely could you get two hits in a row with the damn thing.

Then you knew no decent snipers.

[NewSith]

Vancha WINS...
Fatality!

[LongBow]

Ok two very obvious points.

1) we are not going to see sniper inflation whichever way the game chooses to go. They will be no more lethal just more annoying.

2) clocking is a great addition to a sniper class, it gives them a much needed defence through stealth. (more role appropriate than additional armour)


----------------------

This did however raise an interesting point, What if OSOK is in reference to a players "health bar" and not an infantryside player as we had all assumed.
That would allow all the perks of two shots to kill, on the players who need it. (HA and LA)(probably medi & eng too)
It would also imply that bullet drop is simply a counter to limit maximum range.

Another perk is that it would allow OSOK sniping in the one place it improves the game ... "counter sniping" as being detected should result in death.

[Princess Frosty]

Presumably snipers wont be able to fire and sustain cloak, and they'll just be able to use cloak to get to their sniping positions. Generally speaking infiltrators in PS1 who were running long distances to reach new areas were easy to spot anyway, remember that infiltrating was based on movement speed so only those very slow, methodical and careful infiltrators were never caught.

I'd like to see the skill/reward curve be ramped up a bit with sniping, it should be 1 hit kill in lighter armour to the head, but things like bullet travel time and bullet drop need to be simulated, maybe also directional wind.

Snipers were always a good target for infiltrators too, you did get sniper hills in the game where snipers would rain death down into base court yards during sieges, but as an infiltrator they're the people who were easy targets to get behind and lay boomers on or set up deplyable turrets behind.

Generally speaking you needed to have good counter snipers to suppress the enemy snipers, once you get snipers on snipers the rest of the troops tend to be safe since they spend all their time sniping and evading each other.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Princess Frosty

Generally speaking you needed to have good counter snipers to suppress the enemy snipers, once you get snipers on snipers the rest of the troops tend to be safe since they spend all their time sniping and evading each other.

Hopefully regular rifles are good at countersniping. Having the same unit be its own direct counter is.. not ideal.

[Raka Maru]

Originally Posted by NewSith

Vancha WINS...
Fatality!

*Applause*

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Hopefully regular rifles are good at countersniping. Having the same unit be its own direct counter is.. not ideal.

Having the same unit be one if it's own counters is fine. Dogfights are good. Tank fights are good. Sniper fights are good.

But yeah, it shouldn't be the only effective option. I'd like to see rifles be pretty good at taking on snipers at all but the most extreme ranges, where it should be pretty hard for the sniper to land a shot anyways. Beyond that, vehicles, cloakers, MAXes should all be effective anti snipers.

Hopefully a snipers biggest use will be killing medics and squad leaders. Priority targets, like snipers are supposed to go after. Anything that helps them in that capacity and keeps them from being overpowered in other ways would make me happy.

[Cosmical]

Haha, i dont know where everyone is pulling WIND DIRECTION from. What do you think this is, Worms? You really think we are going to be licking our thumbs and waiting for a breeze to die down to take a shot?

My only thought on sniping is, i want to be useful against MAX's. I didnt mind getting killed by inftantry, if i had missed my chance i deserved to. And i didnt mind being useless against vehicles, makes sense, although headshots on pilots would be a godsend.

But MAX's spotting my location and sprinting for a whole minute to get to me, with me landing bullet after bullet on them. Only for them to get in range, kill me and then walk away with no damage to their health. Rediculous.

I was thinking, Sniper shot to the head on MAX's opens up their armour to further attack from either you or infantry, something that maybe auto repairs over time. Could add some interesting teamplay mechanics, shooting a MAX's back panal off to open him up to a backstab? Wouldnt have to be any more dramatic than a particle effect on a MAX's armour.

[Traak]

One shot kills should only apply from one sniper to another. There. Problem solved. Then we would see how much shrieking in excitement snipers had for one shot kills.

Want one-shot kills? Great! Go find some other snipers to shoot at. And leave the other players alone, or be satisfied with multi-shot kills, like the rest of them.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Traak

One shot kills should only apply from one sniper to another. There. Problem solved. Then we would see how much shrieking in excitement snipers had for one shot kills.

Want one-shot kills? Great! Go find some other snipers to shoot at. And leave the other players alone, or be satisfied with multi-shot kills, like the rest of them.

Do not restart it please. Let it die.

[Kaotc]

i dont see the issue with OSOK, on light and medium armour, because at the end of the day, if you get shot in the head with a sniper, your going to die.

heavy and MAX, shouldnt be OSOK.

i think sniping in BF3 is quite balanced, the scope glint is a major givaway, aswell as the spotting mechanic, which in PS2 should allow air cav to quickly go and mop them up.

[Smokingrabbit]

Having played a n infiltrater in PS1 I have no problem with the 1 shot kill. Everything was like a 1 shot with no armor lol.
WHAT IS POINT OF A HEADSHOT IF YOU STILL NEED 2 SHOTS TO KILL?

also in large scale fights you will get killed by unavoidable damage quite often. My other favorate thing in PS1 was my reaver. If you were in the open you live or die by the pilots skill alone, because you know he is firing enough rockets to kill you.

Its large a scale battlefield sometimes you will just get unlucky.

[EZShot]

Adding fuel to the fire...

Being a long time fan of shooters (especially old school) I'm firmly of the belief that a headshot with any weapon should be one hit kill *source: real life

Obviously with what looks like personal shield generators maybe that should be the case once shields are down.

It wouldn't be that big a deal with the ranges that we're looking at engaging on, would make CQB pretty dangerous.

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by EZShot

Being a long time fan of shooters (especially old school) I'm firmly of the belief that a headshot with any weapon should be one hit kill *source: real life

You're not serious right?