Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?

[Kilmoran]

Originally Posted by TeaReks

If you want to melee play Mount and Blade.


Rifle bash for a short stun with very limited damage would be ok.

Ask any solider which they would rather have a knife or an assault rifle in any situation.

I guess maybe opening a MRE with an assault rifle would be tough but they aren't including food in PS2 so I think we are all set.

Blasphemy TeaReks! The only thing i use guns for as a cloaker is to kill maxes.... of or to get basic weapons titanium.

[Frotang]

Guys I already won this thread 2 pages back, end of thread. Devs go fix this now.

Originally Posted by Frotang

Every other weapon and piece of equipment in the game requires you to press a button to equip it and then press a button to use it. So the fact that they make a button catering to one specific weapon that combines those actions is outrageous.

Here is how this can be done while still appealing to the players who want to quick knife.
Knife is an equipped weapon same as ps1 but you create a mele skill tree that when upgraded would reduce the amount of time it takes to equip said knife and could also have an option to upgrade slash speed.
This would enable players to quick knife if certed correctly but would take skill and timing. make it so theres at penalty for spamming use key before knife is completely out like a slower swing. That way a player who has perfect timing can basically insta knife if they are good enough.

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Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Sirisian]

What's with the biased poll? Modern shooter? You're discussing quick-knife vs quick-bash. We already discussed in depth that most people didn't want a modern implementation of the quick knife for Planetside 2. Many preferred a modified approach to quick knife, but were fine with quick knife when discussing it. Read this summary of possible options. My ideal implementation of quick knife was at the bottom. If you have time I'd recommend reading the whole thread. It offers some insight's into the community's reactions toward "modern" FPS quick knife implementations.

Originally Posted by Zekeen

What do you guys think?

I'm not against a rifle bash mechanic, but honestly I'd prefer throwing knives and other upgrades over a bayonet which to me sounds extremely lame in any foreseeable animation. Basically the concept of a quick knife finishing move at close range isn't really a problem. I think you summarized their implementation goals already.

Anyway the implementation I linked for quick knife takes into consideration most of the criticisms of quick knife to create a balanced and useful weapon while still allowing an equippable knife.

I think this thread though is testament to the fact that the community can evolve. We're seeing a lot of nice discussion involving the pros and cons of each system.

Also if it isn't clear if you don't read the other quick knife thread, quick-bash was brought up. Do you want a stun attack or just identical to a quick knife with a weapon?

[Purple]

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwrr

*Ask any soldier which they would rather have; A knife or an assault rifle with no bullets because your clip is empty and your pistol is empty so you have no other choice but to resort to melee.

i would still rather have the assault rifle. knifes and very short range, you can gain a few feet if you use your AR which is out of ammo as a club.

anyway you should be running away if you dont have ammo.

[The Degenatron]

Originally Posted by Kilmoran

Bullets are noisy, most of the time. Ammo, especially as an infiltrator, could be at a premium. Generally, you had to get just as close for most pistols in PS 1 any how to get the kill, and it was far more noticable and took longer to kill with a pistol against rexo than it did the melee boosted knife. I assure you... you can help the team just fine with a knife in Planet Side. Maybe not other games, but definitely this one. Maybe PS 2 will follow that idea.

If you are creeping up on some guy to do a stealth kill, then there's no need to have a "quick knife".

Someone else mention the knife attack in BF3, and I agree, it's very well done. The only problem I have with it is that you can creep on a guy with your gun out and just hit a quick button to get the knife kill. That's not realistic or fair. It gives the attacker a "backup plan" of having a gun at the ready in case they get caught. Funk Dat!

By all means, sneak, creep, and cut a fool - but go "all in" for it. If you're gonna get a one-shot silent kill - then it is fair that you are vulnerable when moving into position for it (equipped knife) and during the take-down (just like BF3).

What I DON'T want to see is some jerky running and swiping and getting kills left and right or camping around the corner of a door quick swiping people as they run out.

[The noob]

Why not have an implementation of both "quick" and "equipable" knives in the game? One button will activate the quick knife, which would do minor to moderate damage and would basically be more of a last resort rather than "lol I got close now I cut you". You can also choose to equip the knife, which leaves you more vulnerable to getting shot, both due to the fact you no longer have a gun equipped and that the knife takes longer to swing, but deals heavier damage than the quick knife, and might also allow infiltrators to backstab if they've certed for it (an assumption since they appear to be the only ones with a melee booster tree).

[The Kush]

The knife should have to be equipped and be the only weapon out. That or remove it and change it to weapon bashing.

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I'm not against a rifle bash mechanic, but honestly I'd prefer throwing knives and other upgrades over a bayonet which to me sounds extremely lame in any foreseeable animation. Basically the concept of a quick knife finishing move at close range isn't really a problem. I think you summarized their implementation goals already.

Throwing knives wouldn't make too much sense for PS2, seeing as we have silencers to fill that role. Though I know WHY you want that (cause throwins knives are awwwweeesome). Nevertheless, Planetside is LESS about 1 shot kills, so a quick-knife backstab is less balanced than an equip knife, then backstab.

Unless we want it so HA are immune to backstabs because of their higher life? But that would be too weird, wouldn't it? So we should stick with more balanced one shots.

Also might be better to limit backstab one shots to infiltrators.

[Sledgecrushr]

Bayonets are bad assed.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Throwing knives wouldn't make too much sense for PS2, seeing as we have silencers to fill that role. Though I know WHY you want that (cause throwins knives are awwwweeesome). Nevertheless, Planetside is LESS about 1 shot kills, so a quick-knife backstab is less balanced than an equip knife, then backstab.

Unless we want it so HA are immune to backstabs because of their higher life? But that would be too weird, wouldn't it? So we should stick with more balanced one shots.

Woah who is talking about one-shot kills? I don't really like class advantages for back-stab. Also it's not really necessary with sane damage numbers. A heavy has a shield it can turn on and become nearly invulnerable already. When I say throwing knives I'm talking about the implementation from this thread:

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Version 4: Balanced Knife Design:

• Quick-button knife with post use delay equal to the unholstering delay of pulling out the weapon again. (Missing with a quick knife leaves you at a huge disadvantage time wise essentially).
  • Tapping the quick knife key swipes for 30% damage
  • Holding the quick knife key transitions to throwing knife after 1 second. 10 m range medium COF. 30% damage
  • Holding over 1.5 seconds has 25 m with small COF. 35% damage
• 3-mode equipped knife:
  • swipe, 30% damage. It's faster for continuous swipes than quick knifing since it lacks the transition back to a weapon)
  • stab, 35% damage, Audible noise like in PS1.
  • throw, single use 30% damage (better for multiple knives since there's no holstering delay)
    • Has pre (1 second to 1.5s when holding down the fire button) and post throw delay (longer animation).
    • If you don't hold the fire button for 1 second the throw is cancelled.
• Throwing knifes has Slow spinning projectile. So if you get hit the person that threw it might be behind cover.
• When equipped secondary stab mode does 75% damage when backstabbing stationary targets.
• Maxes takes 0% damage from knife attacks.
• Damage is uniform across all classes with no class (other than max) having advantages or disadvantages.
• If two people knife at the same general time the attacks are parried doing no damage allowing friendlies to kill the attacker. Rare, but this was brought up and is really necessary to help those at low health to protect themselves from a finishing strike. This increases tactics and fulfills the concept of a quick time event for protecting oneself from knife attacks that a few people want.

The full justification is in that thread though. We had a very long conversation about the pros and cons of such mechanics and tweaked the fake percentages for a while since people kept bringing up hard numbers. (It essentially forced me to define strict numbers). I feel odd linking it here since it's out of context with the original discussion which included some other points, but I think it can stand by itself now.

[Sledgecrushr]

So youre out of ammo and probably pretty hirt. The enemy is coming for you and you throw your knife at them? I would rather have a bayonet than throw my knife away.

[Timealude]

i would rather have equitable knife with it being customized, me being a big fan of cloaker class..I loved being able to knife people while invisible and have quick knife would add too much of an advantage to cloakers just for the pure fact that they would just quick knife and shoot you.

[Timealude]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

So youre out of ammo and probably pretty hirt. The enemy is coming for you and you throw your knife at them? I would rather have a bayonet than throw my knife away.

Shoot less and pick your shots better. lol.....cant say much for the TR but VS and NC should know that by now :P

[Hmr85]

I'm not a fan of quick knife. I would rather you have to actually equip your knife to do damage. Similar to what we had in PS1.

[SixShooter]

I'm against any kind of quick mele attack. A knife should be equipped just like with any other weapon, although I will say that I am in favor of it being an inst-kill when knifing someone in the back.