the Phoenix and its flaw - Page 7

Effective · 2011-03-15, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Or your aircraft has to be damaged to bail. The reverse makes less sense. Why would any pilot bail from a perfectly good aircraft.

Because being in air during a certain point and time could be counter productive, and taking the time to land in a combat zone is a great way to say "Here shoot me while I'm defenseless", bailing gives a quick way for pilots to get out of the air in a hurry.

And even if your idea went through, someone could just put a bullet into their aircraft before doing anything and say "Hey my aircraft is damaged, i can bail now!"

Hamma · 2011-03-16, 02:03 PM

It's funny how the dropping out of aircraft comes up in almost every thread.

Baneblade · 2011-03-16, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Effective

Because being in air during a certain point and time could be counter productive, and taking the time to land in a combat zone is a great way to say "Here shoot me while I'm defenseless", bailing gives a quick way for pilots to get out of the air in a hurry.

Of course it does, but it adds far to much to the one man army problem. Which trumps any 'inconvenience' concerns you have. Being vulnerable just because you are a pilot is not a reason to do or not do something.

And even if your idea went through, someone could just put a bullet into their aircraft before doing anything and say "Hey my aircraft is damaged, i can bail now!"

Actually I wouldn't allow pilot bailing until the point it would actually have a chance to fail. Bailures and hotdroppers are far too prevalent in PS and really add too much negative dynamic. Pilots have it far too easy in PS.

Effective · 2011-03-16, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Of course it does, but it adds far to much to the one man army problem. Which trumps any 'inconvenience' concerns you have. Being vulnerable just because you are a pilot is not a reason to do or not do something.

Actually I wouldn't allow pilot bailing until the point it would actually have a chance to fail. Bailures and hotdroppers are far too prevalent in PS and really add too much negative dynamic. Pilots have it far too easy in PS.

I really don't see the problem of bailing agiles, they have 100 armor, very limited inventory space, they can't hotswap weapons as easily as a rexo.

A "1 man army" is most certainly not some HA agile user, he has 1 advantage over a rexo, that being that he's faster slightly (actual skill levels aside). Now in PS due to clientside extrapolation, there is warping, but in PS:N I can almost guarantee there will not be warping. As no games use extrapolation any more. I don't see how 10 hot droppers is more worse then a gal drop with 8 rexos and 2 max units.

This type of playstyle generally attracts better players, that's pretty much it, and the noobs who can't handle an agile while using rexo/HA/max units and a spawn point are just to dumb to figure out how to not die to it.

Baneblade · 2011-03-17, 07:55 PM

Where there is smoke, there is fire. If being an agile hotdrop monkey didn't work so well, do you think anyone would do it? Would entire outfits be based on that playstyle?

You can argue against it all you want, but being able to hotdrop out of nowhere with an HA weapon and then go on to kill ten people is a little silly. If you want to be a drop trooper, get a Galaxy and develop some dependency teamwork.

Bags · 2011-03-17, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Where there is smoke, there is fire. If being an agile hotdrop monkey didn't work so well, do you think anyone would do it? Would entire outfits be based on that playstyle?

You can argue against it all you want, but being able to hotdrop out of nowhere with an HA weapon and then go on to kill ten people is a little silly. If you want to be a drop trooper, get a Galaxy and develop some dependency teamwork.

It's only because of extrapolation and the fact that most people suck. Seriously, I just saw DemoManDT win a 1v4 against 4 rexos with his agile lasher.

Effective · 2011-03-18, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

You can argue against it all you want, but being able to hotdrop out of nowhere with an HA weapon and then go on to kill ten people is a little silly. If you want to be a drop trooper, get a Galaxy and develop some dependency teamwork.

What's silly is that 10 people can't kill 1 guy wearing agile, what this suggests is that it's just a bunch of really bad players. There's no real excuse to dieing to 1 agile, unless you didn't have a weapon out, were already almost dead, and a very small limited amount of scenarios.

People play this kind of playstyle because it's fun and challenging (when facing a relatively competant players).

Bags · 2011-03-18, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Effective

What's silly is that 10 people can't kill 1 guy wearing agile, what this suggests is that it's just a bunch of really bad players. There's no real excuse to dieing to 1 agile, unless you didn't have a weapon out, were already almost dead, and a very small limited amount of scenarios.

People play this kind of playstyle because it's fun and challenging (when facing a relatively competant players).

No, the reason 4 rexos with Heavy Assault couldn't kill DemoManDT in agile with Heavy Assault who had to hack a door is because Heavy assault is overpowered.

Wait a minute...

TRex · 2011-03-18, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

No, the reason 4 rexos with Heavy Assault couldn't kill DemoManDT in agile with Heavy Assault who had to hack a door is because Heavy assault is overpowered.

Wait a minute...

If there was some sort of damage indicator /record in game, you would probably find that a significant amount of the damage done to the 4 rexo's would be from desperately trying to get that one agile kill, but in the meantime they probably did more damage to each other in the stampede /strafing across the front of each others los.
I agree with 'Effective's' summary above. Agile hotdroppers imo bring an added element of exitement to the game , and would be a detriment in gameplay if they were removed or altered.

Bags · 2011-03-18, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by TRex

If there was some sort of damage indicator /record in game, you would probably find that a significant amount of the damage done to the 4 rexo's would be from desperately trying to get that one agile kill, but in the meantime they probably did more damage to each other in the stampede /strafing across the front of each others los.
I agree with 'Effective's' summary above. Agile hotdroppers imo bring an added element of exitement to the game , and would be a detriment in gameplay if they were removed or altered.

Yeah, I'm sure that'd be the case. People are so desperate for kills in this game.

Baneblade · 2011-03-18, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Effective

What's silly is that 10 people can't kill 1 guy wearing agile, what this suggests is that it's just a bunch of really bad players. There's no real excuse to dieing to 1 agile, unless you didn't have a weapon out, were already almost dead, and a very small limited amount of scenarios.

People play this kind of playstyle because it's fun and challenging (when facing a relatively competant players).

I personally have no issue killing agiles that think they are warping, but that isn't really my problem with the whole thing. My problem with it is the mobility : effectiveness ratio (I'm not just talking about agile). There is no higher ratio for that in the game. It is just silly for anyone to try to do anything else and still expect to have any level of performance. So the entire game shifts to that and only the stubborn holdouts and scrubs stick to anything else.

You spent a week being the guy on the other end of it and see what happens. You will go back to it, I guarantee it. And it has nothing to do with it 'being a challenge'.

Effective · 2011-03-18, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

You spent a week being the guy on the other end of it and see what happens. You will go back to it, I guarantee it. And it has nothing to do with it 'being a challenge'.

I rarely hot drop on top of towers any more in my mossie, especially since I haven't had medical certed for over 3 weeks now. The game currently has far to much spam as it currently stands that being said.

Nerfing something for the sake of nerfing something is never a good idea. There's no real reason to nerf someone bailing in agile.

Baneblade · 2011-03-19, 02:56 AM

My desire to nerf bailing has more to do with pilots than agiles. Pilots have it far too easy in PS. And I say that as someone who has logged more hours in a Reaver than most players.

Effective · 2011-03-19, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

My desire to nerf bailing has more to do with pilots than agiles. Pilots have it far too easy in PS. And I say that as someone who has logged more hours in a Reaver than most players.

I don't see how pilots have it to easy, maybe if they were able to bail in rexo or a max unit, then I could see it, but the limitation of agile is good.

If there was no realistic counter to someone hot dropping by themselves in agile, then maybe they'd have it to easy. But they're in agile, not in rexo, not in a max. Not to mention all the afore mentioned counters to a agile (Rexo HA, max unit, corner humping because it's your tower/base and you dont need to recklessly charge someone, boomers, etc)

All they need to do is . Fix bailing it so that it's the same for everyone and not bailing, either by making a set damage limit, that once your aircraft has been damaged to "x" you can no longer bail, OR, making it so that if you have taken damage in the last "x" seconds you can't bail. Then reduce cert points (and increase some cert point costs) back down to br20-23. Then not use extrapolation so there isn't any warping in PS.