Definition of 'Selling Power' - Page 8

p0intman · 2011-09-13, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

SOE knows this F2P system won't work so they're doubling back and realizing they need to sell incentives to players without them realizing it.

I was going to link that, except in the context that SOE can't live up to the promise of never selling power. Which is also true.

Ie: They've set themelves up to lie to the playerbase. Countdown to rage by players:

?? years, ?? months, ?? days

Also, cue my comment about agreeing with the suggestion that I implied smed/matt/soe/whoever else is incompetent, etc.

basti · 2011-09-13, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

I was going to link that, except in the context that SOE can't live up to the promise of never selling power. Which is also true.

Ie: They've set themelves up to lie to the playerbase. Countdown to rage by players:

?? years, ?? months, ?? days

Also, cue my comment about agreeing with the suggestion that I implied smed/matt/soe/whoever else is incompetent, etc.

You are still here? Didnt you make clear that you hate all and everything about Planetside 2, and wont play it anyway?

Lets make this clear: It propably has to be F2P To get enough people in to actually live. 2000 per cont, lets say 6 conts for release, means the game world supports up to 12k people, and need at least 8k during prime time to feel alive really. Getting those numbers in a FPS with a subscription is a much harder task than having it F2P.

Now, they obviously need to sell something in order to make a living. We all agree that selling stuff that just looks different is fine, as long as it stays within the game world (no wizard hats). But now, you guys come along and create a definition for "power" that is absoluty, and i repeat myself here, ABSOLUTY retarted and wrong.

Selling power means that you, the player, can go to the cash shop, buy something for whatever price, and just go raping everyone else. THAT is selling power, NOTHING ELSE!
Selling something that saves someone time may be a bit of power at release, but just weeks after release, its completly pointless, because all of us that play since day one are further ahead than those who just came in, even if we didnt buy the time saving thing but the new guys did. Ofc, if you play since day one and always get the time save thingy, you are the most advanted one, but that doesnt matter, because you STILL CANT RAPE ANYBODY! You may have a slight, really slight BASIC advancement in some situations with your +10 damage + 10 COF thing, but that still doenst mean you are automaticly winning. Theres a lot more in that equation, like the situation, range between you and him, what weapon he got, what weapon you got, etc. Its a long list of stuff.

The only thing they need to make sure they do is that those items in the cash shop are really just something that safes time. Not because it would be selling power otherwise, no, because of balance reasons. Selling something in the cash shop that you cant get ingame without cash means that you cant just change stats there. If you would try to change something after someone bought it, they would want their cash back if the change affected the item to much (like nerfing a unitentional overpowered item).

p0intman · 2011-09-13, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by basti

Ragey emotional stuff

Did you watch the presentation in its entirety?

Bags · 2011-09-13, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

I was going to link that, except in the context that SOE can't live up to the promise of never selling power. Which is also true.

Ie: They've set themelves up to lie to the playerbase. Countdown to rage by players:

?? years, ?? months, ?? days

Also, cue my comment about agreeing with the suggestion that I implied smed/matt/soe/whoever else is incompetent, etc.

Well, if a horrible company like RIOT can avoid selling power for two years I would hope SOE would be able to.

basti · 2011-09-13, 03:58 PM

yes p0int, 6 month ago, when it actually came out.
And it has little to do with planetside.

CutterJohn · 2011-09-13, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

They're playing off the word upgrade and trying to call them "sidegrades" so that people like yourself will be fooled into thinking they aren't going to sell power. It will start to make sense when you realize how their system works. You'll play for 10 hours to get a sidegrade that gives you a minor advantage. However you can just purchase this sidegrade instantly if you wish. Is that selling power? Personally I think it is. If I can jump into the game on day one and throw money to gain an advantage in certain situations it's selling power. I'll have this advantage 24/7 and you'll get it every once in a while if you want to use resources for that instead of something else.

The only possible way to keep this game on a level playing field for everyone and remove any incentive is to keep the cash shop for only aesthetic items. SOE knows this F2P system won't work so they're doubling back and realizing they need to sell incentives to players without them realizing it. They're a business so it's hard to blame them for their decision, but you're deluding yourself if you think this sacrifice will make the game better in the long run.

I know exactly what they'll be selling. I don't mind. I will probably buy some extra stuff I really don't care about on top of the stuff I want just because I want to support the game. Depends on the prices I imagine.

This 'sacrifice'(how melodramatic) will make the game better in the long run.

NapalmEnima · 2011-09-13, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Edit: Can a word be ignorant? haha..

Only if it's spelled I G N O R A N T.

p0intman · 2011-09-13, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by basti

yes p0int, 6 month ago, when it actually came out.
And it has little to do with planetside.

Then I think you completely miss the point: It has nothing to do with planetside or battlefield heros.

It has everything to do with economics of business models. The implication is that Sony cannot live up to the idea that they can get away with not selling power. Microtransactions are a model used to hinder third party RMT, which hurts 'traditional' RPG/Sandbox type worlds with farmers and such. Its effective for what it does and is designed to do both on a business level and a game design level for those games (Example: WoW, others).

Reference before I go on:
Learning from Korea

What I've said before is that the implications of advantages are magnified in a shooter. Even Korean studios apparently might agree with me from the standpoint of balance. If it isnt secret, there are problems. In order for it to be kept secret, it needs to be hard to discern to people who do the research of how to best min/max your setup. People do that in every MMO, planetside included.

please review what has been said from an economic and balance standpoint before attacking me personally again.

Bags · 2011-09-13, 04:18 PM

LoL is still running and they don't sell power.

FIREk · 2011-09-13, 04:20 PM

In all honesty, EQ as pat best pretty popular, then Blizz copied it and made MMORPGs Massive.

SOE made a lot of good stuff, like EQ, SQG and PS1, and can't be considered incompetent. Quite often just a single person with power can screw things up, though - like whoever thought NGE were a good idea for SWG.

Let's hope such people have left, or grown beyond micromanagement and thinking their ideas are great, just because they're theirs.

Sirisian · 2011-09-13, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by basti

Selling power means that you, the player, can go to the cash shop, buy something for whatever price, and just go raping everyone else. THAT is selling power, NOTHING ELSE!

Originally Posted by basti

You may have a slight, really slight BASIC advancement in some situations with your +10 damage + 10 COF thing, but that still doenst mean you are automaticly winning.

So you're whole argument is based on drawing an imaginary line where any advantage isn't game breaking. You see I don't want any cash shop pay to win advantages. I get that you and CutterJohn don't care if you can buy situational advantages, but some of us just want a fair game where the cash shop doesn't even play into if you got the kill. I don't want to know I got a kill because I bought an upgrade at the shop so that I could kill people further away or closer or anything.

Originally Posted by Bags

LoL is still running and they don't sell power.

Why do people keep bringing up this 10 person multiplayer game? I'm confused. Do you know what other small games don't sell power. Even though it costs money for the box Starcraft 2 along with thousands of other small multiplayer/co-op games. I really don't follow your logic at all.

Also I find their selling of experience boosts in that game completely retarded. As my friends described you can boost your account experience to get summoner skills which directly affect the core gameplay indirectly buying power. "Runes give you extra stats in matches, masteries give you more stats per level and stuff." It's nice because as my friend put it the community doesn't connect the two.

Talek Krell · 2011-09-13, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

Yes, because CCP is a company that should focus strictly on EVE instead of, oh I don't know, developing games because it's a game developer.

Perish the thought.

Whether they subscribers are right to be upset is irrelevant. I was simply pointing out that they'd been misrepresented.

What Sony has presented does not worry me. If my opponent has purchased a situational advantage then I will simply find a more favorable situation.

Bags · 2011-09-13, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Why do people keep bringing up this 10 person multiplayer game? I'm confused. Do you know what other small games don't sell power. Even though it costs money for the box Starcraft 2 along with thousands of other small multiplayer/co-op games.

I really don't follow your logic at all.
Well then you're an idiot. LoL is a F2P game with millions of players that does F2P right.

Also I find their selling of experience boosts in that game completely retarded. As my friends described you can boost your account experience to get summoner skills which directly affect the core gameplay indirectly buying power. "Runes give you extra stats in matches, masteries give you more stats per level and stuff." It's nice because as my friend put it the community doesn't connect the two.

I don't really care if a level 10 has an advantage over a level 8, because it took all of two weeks (this is a conservative estimate. It took me a week) to be level 30. A level 8 and 10 are going to both suck so bad at the game what runes or summoner spells they have won't make a lick of difference. And I'm pretty sure I've never had a game that came down to runes being the deciding factor between who won. When you are level 30 everyone has full rune pages, masteries, and summoner spells. It's an 100% even playing field after a week of playing as low levels do not get matched with high levels.

The only legitimate complaint is some champions (like Nocturne) cannot jungle without runes, but you didn't even make that argument.

Play the game before you spout bullshit here, okay?

Crator · 2011-09-13, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

They're playing off the word upgrade and trying to call them "sidegrades" so that people like yourself will be fooled into thinking they aren't going to sell power. I

If I can jump into the game on day one and throw money to gain an advantage in certain situations it's selling power. I'll have this advantage 24/7 and you'll get it every once in a while if you want to use resources for that instead of something else.

Good points however Smed said the weapon would be given a + in one stat and a - in another stat. I don't see this as a bad compromise to the system.

They can fix the day one thing by simply not allowing the side-grades to be purchased until the in-game population has obtained them by playing the game, without spending money.

CutterJohn · 2011-09-13, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

SOE knows this F2P system won't work so they're doubling back and realizing they need to sell incentives to players without them realizing it.

Having just watched this, I actually now find it laughable that anyone has issues with this model. I particularly enjoyed the part about how forum rage was just forum rage, and how few of them actually put their money where their mouth is.