Supression Effect - Page 8

RNFB · 2012-03-16, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Conq

Haha, what wonderful logic. In BF3, when an enemy shines a light in my face, my character shouldn't be blinded. It should be up to me as the player to determine my reaction?

Having line shined in your face isn't psychological...

Not worth my time arguing with someone who has no idea what they're talking about.

Vancha · 2012-03-16, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

OK, I didn't read this thread but I did go through each page hitting search for "deviation" and "spread" and I didn't see anything so:

Battlefield 3 doesn't just use blur as part of its suppression, it also causes you to suffer increased random deviation. Did you guys know that, and are you advocating this too?

And for that matter, suppression aside, is PS2 going to have random deviation, bullet drop, etc?

Developer response on the first page.

Stardouser · 2012-03-16, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Vancha

Developer response on the first page.

Well, that answers the question of "is suppression currently planned to affect accuracy". Two remain:
1. Are you non-devs advocating that suppression should affect accuracy, without regard to what the current dev plans are?
2. Completely outside of suppression, is the game going to use deviation etc?

Fujilives · 2012-03-16, 02:58 PM

Screen edge blurring is one thing, I don't neccesarily hate that. Especially if it is an indicator of the side someone is shooting you from.

However, in general, I don't like anything that makes my screen "blurry" or gives an effect of "cracked glass" or anything along those lines, period. There's never been a game where I've gone "awesome, I can't see!" as it is the same thing as loss-of-control of a character.

There are a billion "loss of control" scenarios that can happen without visual intervention from a GUI. I could have the phone ring and have to let go of my mouse. I could hit the wrong key, I could have to respond to my wife in the other room. I could be in a fight and panic. I could get sweaty palms and need to dry my hand so I could grip my mouse properly, or risk it irritating me until my accuracy veered into hell. Any additional, intentional game-induced increases to the already human set of potential errors in combat is over the top and frustrating. It's not like the weapons are 100% accurate from the get-go, I mean how do we determine when a person is at an absolute-point-of-zen, where every bullet is flying from their barrel as if by guided by higher power? So if you can't determine that state, how the hell can you determine when someone is nervous? It's a poor idea and is rarely implemented in a way that is even remotely beneficial. While I agree BF3 does a decent job, I don't think it belongs in PS2.

PredatorFour · 2012-03-16, 03:56 PM

BF3 does do a decent job with suppression and i too could still kill someone whilst suppressd. I agree with the previous poster that it doesnt really have a place in PS.
When your fighting over a base against hundreds of people, no matter how big the bases are, there's still going to be choke points causing a constant screen blur potentially.
They could maybe solve this by adding little blurry effects , nothing too over the top, or say add the effects when a bullet literally just misses you. This would be dramatically different from the BF3 suppression effect, when firing within 1/2 feet of the enemy suppresses them.

Vancha · 2012-03-16, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Well, that answers the question of "is suppression currently planned to affect accuracy". Two remain:
1. Are you non-devs advocating that suppression should affect accuracy, without regard to what the current dev plans are?
2. Completely outside of suppression, is the game going to use deviation etc?

1. Generally no.

2. I'm not precisely sure what sort of deviation you're referring to. A random placement of bullets within the cone of fire seems likely.

Stardouser · 2012-03-16, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Vancha

1. Generally no.

2. I'm not precisely sure what sort of deviation you're referring to. A random placement of bullets within the cone of fire seems likely.

Pretty much what you described, a random placement of bullets within a cone. BF3 has MUCH less deviation than BF2 had, that's why a lot of us refer to it as a spraying game.

In BF games deviation is reduced by stopping moving, crouching, even more by proning, and by aiming down sight instead of hipfiring. So in a Battlefield context, when people complain about deviation, they are basically saying they do not want to have to stop, crouch, and/or aim down sight to have accuracy.

Of course, I feel the need to point out that in a perfect system, doing all three, stop moving, crouch and ADS, that would reduce deviation to near zero, leaving only bullet drop and recoil. Battlefield 2 obviously didn't do this enough, even while you proned and ADS, it still had a lot of deviation.

I happen to believe in a middle ground myself. BF2 went too far with it, and BF3 goes too far in not having it.

As a result, you could correctly infer that I don't advocate doing it in exactly the way that ANY BF game has done it(although I didn't really play 2142, so it might have been improved in that game).

Vancha · 2012-03-16, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Pretty much what you described, a random placement of bullets within a cone. BF3 has MUCH less deviation than BF2 had, that's why a lot of us refer to it as a spraying game.

In BF games deviation is reduced by stopping moving, crouching, even more by proning, and by aiming down sight instead of hipfiring. So in a Battlefield context, when people complain about deviation, they are basically saying they do not want to have to stop, crouch, and/or aim down sight to have accuracy.

Doesn't pretty much every FPS have deviation? Apart from things like the railgun in Quake or what have you.

Skitrel · 2012-03-16, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Vancha

Doesn't pretty much every FPS have deviation? Apart from things like the railgun in Quake or what have you.

Usually only in hipfire shooting these days. BF2/3 deviate during ADS, with shots not going precisely where you're aiming except under perfect conditions.

Vancha · 2012-03-16, 05:19 PM

Well, the whole thing sounds like it'll be a thorough joy to balance in beta.

BNuts · 2012-03-16, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fujilives

There's never been a game where I've gone "awesome, I can't see!" as it is the same thing as loss-of-control of a character.

....

I mean how do we determine when a person is at an absolute-point-of-zen, where every bullet is flying from their barrel as if by guided by higher power?

I lol'd

Eighm · 2012-03-16, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by BNuts

I lol'd

Likewise. Thanks Fujilives for brightening my day.

On topic, I'm for a suppression effect so long as something like the Chaingun doesn't make me completely blind the entire time I'm fighting near one.

BNuts · 2012-03-16, 06:11 PM

So what about suppression effects, when I suppress people with flashbangs!

............just kidding devs, please don't put flashbangs in PS2, for serious

RNFB · 2012-03-16, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by BNuts

So what about suppression effects, when I suppress people with flashbangs!

............just kidding devs, please don't put flashbangs in PS2, for serious

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but flashbang was confirmed not long ago.

http://www.planetside2.com/news/lightassaultcommlink

2nd paragraph under the picture

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-03-18, 06:25 PM

Ok, so... Seems to me that there's a lot of love and hate for this going around.

If your first bullet or 2 is going to be 100% "US Marine Corps master sniper" accurate, then I am IN FAVOUR of some suppression effects. If you're 2km away from the firefight, you can afford to relax and be accurate and do your breathing techniques and all that jazz.

If your non-sniper weapon is always going to have some deviation from perfection - say 1m out over a 50m range - like PS1 weapons all were then I am AGAINST suppression effect - it is already inbuilt into the shooting mechanic.

I don't want already less than perfect shooting to be compounded with suppression effects in a world where death means nothing.

Having said that, if you're not at 100% health, then I think you should suffer a corresponding lack of accuracy because you're too busy holding your blood in.