Devs: Engineers Should carry Ammo packs..not LA's. - Page 8

NewSith · 2012-06-07, 07:37 PM

I would actually love to see Ammo Packs for *tudum* MEDICS! I mean with all the info we have (as in "medics only own close range weaponry") it really seems as if medic is about to become 90% support class. So why not give medics an ability to give people some candy after healing them?

PS: Bear in mind that I was too lazy to read through any post other than OP, even the one above mine, so sorry if I missed anything.

Synapse · 2012-06-07, 07:42 PM

Give class and weapon scouting to light assault (discussed on livestream)

and give ammo packs to heavy assault.

sylphaen · 2012-06-07, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

I would actually love to see Ammo Packs for *tudum* MEDICS! I mean with all the info we have (as in "medics only own close range weaponry") it really seems as if medic is about to become 90% support class. So why not give medics an ability to give people some candy after healing them?

PS: Bear in mind that I was too lazy to read through any post other than OP, even the one above mine, so sorry if I missed anything.

I wouldn't mind a class called "support" where you could customize your role. However, I'd say it is easier to not merge the classes and keep the dedicated support roles separated; people could get confused about "is that guy medic spec or repair spec".

In terms of gameplay, clear roles makes it more interesting/challenging/fun when you know what skillset you have taken away from your enemies during your assault (e.g. "they can't revive anymore/they have no repairs anymore" vs. "one support guy is down").

NewSith · 2012-06-07, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by sylphaen

I wouldn't mind a class called "support" where you could customize your role. However, I'd say it is easier to not merge the classes and keep the dedicated support roles separated; people could get confused about "is that guy medic spec or repair spec".

In terms of gameplay, clear roles makes it more interesting/challenging/fun when you know what skillset you have taken away from your enemies during your assault (e.g. "they can't revive anymore/they have no repairs anymore" vs. "one support guy is down").

No, what I mean is Ammo Boxes exclusively to a medic, along with his healgun. Why? Because in theory medics are the last line in the class offense line.

Here's the elaboration top = front:

MAX, Heavy Assault - hard hitting tough vanguard. Giving them ammo is not exactly a wise idea, because they're not designed for support, though they can drop ammo, because they'll be the first to enter fights, people will pick their ammo after them. Problem is - they'll be only throwing ammo for themselves, not the team.
Engineer - balanced offensive and defensive capabilities, alongside with being a pilot class basically.
Medic - Healer class, no matter how you look at it. If the CQB info about them is still correct, of course. If not, they go in line with Engies.
Infiltrator, Light Assault - two standalone classes, that are VERY bad choice for an ammo pack, because they will always be anywhere, BUT in the mob.

As you can see - the best choice for an ammo pack is either a medic or an engie. Assault can have it, but people playing HA are rarely people realising that they also have to support their teammates. Same thing you can see with support class in BF3, that has default LMG being more effective than assault rifles even at long range. The worst choice is obviously infil and LA, and I said why above.

T MAN · 2012-06-07, 08:10 PM

I would think engineer would be best, he could build a resupply thing of some sort, like in TF2 and section 8 etc.

sylphaen · 2012-06-07, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

No, what I mean is Ammo Boxes exclusively to a medic, along with his healgun. Why? Because in theory medics are the last line in the class offense line.

Here's the elaboration top = front:

MAX, Heavy Assault - hard hitting tough vanguard. Giving them ammo is not exactly a wise idea, because they're not designed for support, though they can drop ammo, because they'll be the first to enter fights, people will pick their ammo after them. Problem is - they'll be only throwing ammo for themselves, not the team.
Engineer - balanced offensive and defensive capabilities, alongside with being a pilot class basically.
Medic - Healer class, no matter how you look at it. If the CQB info about them is still correct, of course. If not, they go in line with Engies.
Infiltrator, Light Assault - two standalone classes, that are VERY bad choice for an ammo pack, because they will always be anywhere, BUT in the mob.

As you can see - the best choice for an ammo pack is either a medic or an engie. Assault can have it, but people playing HA are rarely people realising that they also have to support their teammates. Same thing you can see with support class in BF3, that has default LMG being more effective than assault rifles even at long range. The worst choice is obviously infil and LA, and I said why above.

Check my posts, we do agree.

If anything, I wouldn't mind seeing both medics and engineers with ammo packs. They still have their distinctive roles (revives and utilities) but both would then be useful for helping the other classes work because ammo is important.

I just do not like the idea of infinite ammo packs drops so much so I would make ammo packs limited and give to the engineer a deployable unit (like the PS1 FDUs) which would resupply all ammo types including ammo packs (like the galaxy/sunderer - but without the option to change of class). With only 1 or 2 deploys allowed, it would force bringing a galaxy/sunderer to move further into the base lest people run out of ammo. Supply chain effect !
^^

Of course, it's impossible to know how this could play out given the current fast pace of the game. We need beta.

Zolan · 2012-06-07, 08:19 PM

To be quite honest, I don't think anyone needs an ammo pack.

It would be much more beneficial to mimic the original Planetside rather than the Battlefield franchise.

If anything, make the ammo pack a selectable ability with tradeoffs.

Hamma · 2012-06-07, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Purrfect Storm has commented on the ammo system during today's stream.

They said it is not going to stay as it was in beta, and they are looking at removing it from light assault because using it with the jetpack was giving people a more lonewolf mentality.

This is good to hear

OutlawDr · 2012-06-07, 10:16 PM

I don't mind the idea of ammo packs. If we just stuck to what PS1 did, PS2 wouldn't even have half the cool features its currently looking to have. So yes, I don't mind ammo packs, -IF- they are limited, one-time use items. Players can run out of them and need to restock at a terminal. I'd also rather have players need to interact with them, and not simply run over them.

I also don't mind static, player made supply stations. Enemies can always destroy it, and it would require a player to specialize in it with associated tradeoffs.

Now the big question is which class gets it. If Light Assault is not going to get it, then yeah.. engineer would make the most sense. However engineers are already laden with many varied roles: its got the ACE (turrets, mines ect..), its the point defense class, MAX/vehicle repair, team-covering portable shields, and like someone said essentially THE pilot/driver class.

Light assault on the other hand is looking very limited, very one dimensional, and it might now lose its one tool that gave it some use in a squad. Im sure jumpjets will allow players to get creative, but creativity is not limited to this class and other classes have a wider range of roles and play-styles to choose from. I do agree that current implementation of Light Assault and its ammopack is not ideal. But ammo pack or no ammo pack, light assault is going to be favored by lone wolves. And I actually don't mind if they do have have ammo packs.....BUT with tradeoffs. If players want to have jump jets that allow them great mobility, then the ammo pack tool they can get should be rather limited. It should allow for a couple refills, but no more. It gives the light assault some degree of independence, but its not the cornucopia of ammo like it is now.

If a light assault player wants to be more useful to a squad, they should have that option...they need that option really. Allow them to specialize in having a greater ammo pack capacity thats squad friendly ...and/or the ability to deploy that ammo crate. The trade-off being that his jump jet capabilities are limited...such as the JJ's fuel recharging much slower or long cooldown to use. This JJ is not going to be as useful in combat like we seen in the videos, and would be better suited as a last ditch escape tool and limited to one off repositioning now and then.

Bottomline, I say keep ammopacks with LA. Add tradeoffs and fully flesh out the LA class before hastily giving ammopack to classes that don't really need it.

Top Sgt · 2012-06-16, 09:04 PM

Turns out The devs listened huh Engineer's as the jack of all trades class FTW

DarkApothecary · 2012-06-17, 12:27 AM

if every class gets 1 or 2 ammo packs then there would be no need, and just give the light assault like a little drone they can fly around or something, idk.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-06-17, 01:20 AM

The MAST (assuming it does what I think it does) completely eliminates the need for ammo drops. Portable inventory stations + the stations that some of the capture points will presumably have will be able to keep an attackers fully supplied with sufficient ammunition.

This is completely ignoring the Galaxy/Sunderer terminals.

Rivenshield · 2012-06-17, 02:07 AM

I'm really, really leery of making resupply so easy it ceases to be a factor in-game. Logistics and supply was one of the elements that made PS1 world class. No ANTs, pull ammo out of your arse.....

/le sigh

Zulthus · 2012-06-17, 02:08 AM

^

I really wish you need to resupply at an equipment terminal. Ammo boxes are just too easy.

Coveringfire · 2012-06-17, 02:41 AM

I haven't read the entire thread so if this has already been mentioned then I apologize. What about making it so Ammo boxes can't be used by the people that dispense them? Then the Light Assault role becomes very important because they need to move ahead of the rest of the army and put ammo in strategic places to ensure that the attack doesn't falter. Plus it would stop them being able to sit in really high places with almost infinite ammo just killing everybody..