Heavy Cloaker Revamped - Page 2

InternetZombie · 2011-08-10, 08:55 PM

As a cloaker myself I say that this is a pretty bad idea. Even with all my specialization into cloaking I still have med assualt because a cloaker is not ment to be used indoors, same as how you cant bring a tank indoors. I'm wondering why you think a little armour is going to make a cloaker effective in a heavy firefight, in an agile suit with a med assualt gun your still pretty useless in that situation. When you specialize you set yourself up to be very useful in some situations and useless in others. You cannont specialize and be effective all round, if you want to be a cloaker you must accept the fact that there are going to be times when your not very effective.

Brusi · 2011-08-10, 09:29 PM

How about a heavier armored cloaker suite, that has a greatly reduced run speed (like RExo or maybe even slower and can't carry ANY offensive weapons).

You get your increased survivability while sneaking around in indoor base fights and you can complete sneaky indoor objectives, like setting up router pads and reporting areas of enemy strength/weakness.

Huma · 2011-08-10, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Brusi

How about a heavier armored cloaker suite, that has a greatly reduced run speed (like RExo or maybe even slower and can't carry ANY offensive weapons).

You get your increased survivability while sneaking around in indoor base fights and you can complete sneaky indoor objectives, like setting up router pads and reporting areas of enemy strength/weakness.

That'd work for me, like an actual infiltration suit. Or just other ways to approach a base fo cloakers. I was largely responding to the fee back I was getting from people regarding other posts I've put up really. They put up ideas for a heavier suit with a larger weapon. Figured I'd put up a version that would be less likely to get nerd batted.
Even I'm against the idea of someone running around cloaked with a gauss rifle.

Goku · 2011-08-10, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Huma

Basically we're willing to make sacrifices to be able to carry a slightly better gun, have a little armor, and carry a little more gear. I figure this is a good optional armor that fulfills what a lot of cloakers have asked for without trying to get a cloaked rifleman running around.
In my outfit I have a very specific role and they rely on me to be there for that role. Sometimes though that role is moot due to how intense the base fights get so I end up running behind them and doing what I can to contribute. I can drop more certs into grunt but I dont like doing grunt work and would rather spec more support skills.
I don't anticipate this being a front lime armor bit it gives cloakers more to work with and still allows them to do their jobs in a heavy fight.

You are making no sense at all. How is having a crappy armor and gun with being immune to radar, but visible like a cloaker? Its stupid. You are just fodder in a base. Either gear up properly for the assault or go elsewhere. Don't whine that you cannot partake due to your cert selection. I want to put a lot of certs into tanks. Can I please get a mini tank to bring in doors and rape everyone then, since I can't bring regular tanks in?

I do not see how this helps really in spec ops either. When I am running around do back line stuff it is normally in empty bases, so I do not worry about radar or being invisible. How is being visible with that kind of set you are describing going to help when you run into a heavy grunt in even a lowly populated base? At least you can runaway with you are cloaked possibly.

Huma I do not think you see the big picture. There is a unlimited amount of certs the only limit is your BR and the time you put into the game. You will not be limited to 20 cert points and not be able to have a basic grunt load while being a total cloaker. Taking maybe a week (probably far less due to the 1000s of certs) to train a basic grunt out of years of playing as a cloaker is not a huge time investment most likely in PS2.

**Malorn** · 2011-08-10, 10:16 PM

Infiltration. If you are an infiltrator and you're in a big firefight in a base you are doing something wrong.

"Heavy" and "Infiltration" doesn't even make sense.

Huma · 2011-08-10, 10:56 PM

Tell you what let me break it down for you:
Currently one of the toughest bases to take is an interlinked base. It shows everyone on radar and effectively neuters cloakers. We can still do our thing but it 10x more difficult. A suit like this does provide minimal protection but it offers a special nich for cloakers to fill in base fights.
By not showing up on radar and still being able to move quickly this suit allows someone to move about a base without the interlink, mossie, or motion sensors lighting them up. This allows them to hit enemies holed up in an area without warning and quickly fall back before the enemy can respond. Why is this useful? Shock tactics. If the enemy isn't sure where someone is going to hit them from it causes them overreact. If they chase the infil they risk running into an ambush. If they stay put they are going to get hit again.
At the same time cloakers would still have all their regular abilities so they could continue to perform the role. For the record anyone who says agile is weak indoors hasn't run into a good ha/sweeper or a coordinated team. Their just as effective and their mobility makes up for the lighter armor.

Talek Krell · 2011-08-10, 11:04 PM

Why would there be a suit that can turn invisible like a cloaker suit, but also comes with a built in sensor supressor, armor, a better weapon, and presumeably more carrying space? Wouldn't that kind of obsolete the cloaker suit?

Huma · 2011-08-10, 11:54 PM

No stealth on it just a sensor shield

**Malorn** · 2011-08-11, 12:05 AM

So the problem you are attempting to solve is Interfarms?

Talek Krell · 2011-08-11, 12:16 AM

Ok. I was confused because you said "standard cloaker gear abilities", but the only thing I can think of that's unique to them is invisibility.

Huma · 2011-08-11, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

So the problem you are attempting to solve is Interfarms?

No, look what I'm suggesting is a way to give cloakers a little more flexibility with regards to situations where cloaking isn't a viable option. Something like this would only give infiltrators another way to contribute to a fight. They retain a certain amount of their sneakiness while not infringing on OP grounds or stepping on the toes of the grunts. You still get to wtfpwn them when you catch them but they get a little more fire power and armor.
Believe me I'm no lazy cloaker. But if I wanted to be a grunt i'd play a grunt. Same as I wouldn't expect you to have to spec cloaker to retain viability in a fight. In the end cloakers are infantry just like grunts are. It only make sense that they have options to retain their viability in their infantry role without having to ditch infiltrator.
And yes we're going to have a lot of options that we can train into. But I know I won't be training in anything other than infiltrator, leader, or medic. I know I'm not good at grunting and I damn sure don't want to be stuck in a vehicle.

Senyu · 2011-08-11, 12:35 AM

Sounds like an Agil suit with an surpressor and an implant hidding him from sensors.......

Senyu · 2011-08-11, 12:36 AM

A cloakers role is to be unseen. They shouldn't deviate from that. Instead of mixing their role with other classes just give cloakers more options on what they can do. While still being exactly what they are

Lonehunter · 2011-08-11, 12:58 AM

First you're still relying too heavily on PLANETSIDE information. In PLANETSIDE 2 we have no idea how many weapons, armor points, tools, or abilities you'll have as a cloaker.

Second you keep saying you need these things because of your role. Your current role, doesn't become a viable option in heavy fights.

That's the role you choose when you spawned. You're all ready talking about a suit that doesn't cloak, so it's not like you can switch from a stealthy cloaker to a more armored now can't-turn-invisible guy with a rifle, you have to go to a terminal or die to get another load out.

So why would you want this thing you're proposing, and not something like switching to the "Grunt Class"

*It would have the same, but probably better firepower then you are mentioning.

*Just as much or more armor

*Since it's another class you'll probably have access to a whole different set of skills that are designed to improve that style "Grunt Class" of gameplay.

Plus you can add something as simple as an implant like Sensor Shield to prevent the interfarm and use "shock tactics"

Once you die, or the action fades away, you can switch back to Cloaker.

In the end it comes down to US NEEDING MORE INFORMATION! All we've had so far is Teasers, not many details.

exLupo · 2011-08-11, 06:22 AM

I think the point of this armor is to give something more combat viable for players who have spent all of their time deep speccing into infil. Unlike a tank or air specialist, an infil specialist is still infantry. The proposal is to give something to infil specialists so they have an answer in case they are in a situation where their specialization has been, essentially, turned off. Granted, this happens to tank and air when the fight moves inside but that's a case of vehicle vs indoors whereas infil is infantry vs indoors.

Essentially an Agile+ carrot to help deep infil players join squads in combat while still being true to the "infiltration" theme. Additionally, this would possibly provide a unique niche, letting this combat viable unit slip past and disable automated defenses and then, unlike cloakers in PS1, continue on to engage the enemy with their squad.

Like all things with a game in development, you need to ask two questions. 1) Does this solve a problem. 2) How well (poorly to overpowered) does this solve the problem.

1) The problem as perceived by the solution creator: Deep infil speccers, using the PS1 model, would be the only infantry unit that would have to build a whole separate spec to participate in general infantry actions.
2) The evaluation: Removing invisibility and creating Agile+Sensor Shield doesn't sound OP up front. They'd be between as useful to vastly more useful than a tank or air specced unit using basic off-spec gear.

Also consider other games. MW, MAG and PS1, off the top of my head, have support for radar invisibility so there is a desired niche for such an ability. Placing that ability in a tree dedicated to infiltration, one that traditionally has problems meshing with force-oriented situations, seems a fairly natural and elegant solution.

A similar example exists in TF2. The Spy unit traditionally was turned off by heavy fire chokepoints. Valve implemented the Dead Ringer which totally changes the Spy's playstyle, allowing them to bypass those chokepoints and keep functioning where, previously, they would have lost all purpose. The end goal there seems to be the same as it is here. Let specialists who are still operating in their intended area continue to do so without having to start over from scratch.

Can that Spy change to solder on his next death? Sure. Does he have to since the DR was implemented? No. The Spy player can keep doing what they enjoy and have practiced in (see: spent time skilling up for) instead of having to spend 2x the amount of time every other infantry does just to stick with their infantry squad.

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Personal note. Since the implementation of the Interlink, there has never been a good time for an infil to move with a squad. Your options, before cert proliferation, were to shrug as your buddies ran in, pick up agile and a suppressor or respec. Most people ultimately took the third option. This suggestion provides an option that doesn't involve giving up.