Rethinking the Drivers and Planetside Vehicles as a whole

[NCLynx]

Talked about this in IRC earlier.

I dunno to me it still sounds like if someone were to ask for the Nano-Dispenser and the Medical applicator to do damage to enemies.

There ARE vehicles that allow the driver to have a gun, for the bigger harder hitting ones the driver drives and the gunner guns. He doesn't have to have a gunner if he doesn't want to, I've got my Run-People-Over Merit to prove that.

The aspects of the game that require more teamwork than simply doing grunt work are there for a reason. Planetside (IMO) was practically made around the concept of teamwork.

Saying said vehicles will be easier to take down etc won't mean much because it's still a VEHICLE and will still require a decent amount of effort to take down. I also still say that if the driver had access to the main gun that pulling 2 of said vehicle would be better than one with a gunner. Sure it opens those vehicles up to more weakness but I would think that the sheer number of people who would either A. not want to gun because they want to main weapon or B. simply drive off without a gunner because it's easier would still outweigh those weaknesses.

[EASyEightyEight]

I don't see the problem with putting a 12mm ball gun on the front bumper of each empires tank (essentially what the Magrider has) with a limited cone to aim in, like with the Basilisk or old Lightning. As for buggies, dual machine guns strapped to the hood, Twisted Metal style.

The driver should by no means have access to the real weaponry of the vehicle, but being that this is a warzone where crap is made seemingly out of thin air thanks to nanites, I don't think it's too much to imagine everyone installing forward mounted firearms onto every one of their crafts.

[BorisBlade]

You want it more engaging for the driver? I'm not seeing a problem. In faster vechicles you should be concentrating on driving only, a good driver in thresher is the key to makin the vehicles not be totally worthless. If i had a gun on it i wouldnt be driving anywhere close to as well and would be dead in short order.

Even in slower vehicles, just be a driver and you can also help with spotting. Definately dont want drivers having main guns. I dont even like secondary guns for drivers much. Its not so bad with the magrider, cause its a complete pain in the arse to use and is extremely weak, I dont even use it most of the time.

There's a reason the lightning isnt very powerful. You dont want people able to have one man death machines, sorta like the flight BFR's. Why would you get in a lightning when you can get in a prowler and have 3x the armor and twice the firepower, you may not get that secondary gun but who cares.

One of the best aspects of PS is that it is designed so everything is multiplayer and encourages/requires teamwork. You need several people to maximize your effectiveness in vehicles. Any game can put 500 individuals on each side and let em fight in single person vehicles, but a true epic game puts 500 team members on each side and lets em work together for maximum interaction and fun.

[Mastachief]

Every suggestion i see from the OP seems to centre on SOLO killwhoring, this is a team based game.

[Malorn]

The driver/gunner model is something they got right the first time. It's a teamwork game and if the driver got primary weapons it would basically turn almost every vehicle into a 1-man vehicle, which is lame. Compare to the battlefield series where 1 man can power the main guns of a vehicle. You don't see 2-manned vehicles very often and it isn't efficient at all to do so.

As a frequent tank driver I also liked not having a gun. I liked knowing that my job was to keep the tank safe and give my gunner good shots, not try to get kills myself. I still got plenty of roadkills but its a fundamentally different mentality when you don't have a weapon and working with a teammate to set up the best shots, evade enemy fire, etc. A driver gun is a distraction. I'd much rather remove that distraction and give more power to the gunner.

The magrider was pretty much the exception to the rule in PS1 (Lib wasn't in at release). While they did give the driver a gun, that gun was a secondary weapon and not the main weapon. The Lib got a pilot gun but I think that's only because the Lib was modeled after the A-10, which has an anti-vehicle nosegun and it doesn't make sense to have a nosegun that isn't in the pilot's control unless its on a swivel, which would be quite sick.

The mag is also the only tank that can really have a driver gun due to the way the others handle it wouldn't work out very well. That mag front gun was also not something you could really use as a vehicle all by itself. I saw a few that tried but the angle of the weapon was very poor and relied on the tanks turning to track horizontally. It was a support weapon, that's all.

[ECM]

I still prefer the classic style of PS1. Planet side should never be about just only bringing the most vehicles to the fight, which I feel your idea suggest (your saying the vangaurd driver should have a weapon just as effective as the cannon, that don't fly, think about it...). The reason you had tons of people playing PS back in the day was because you needed tons of people. I am sure there will be plenty of vehicles where the driver gets a gun, just not the biggest stick in the playground, more like toothpicks. I would rather the devs like of new bigger and better vehicles that require 3 or 4 man crews to operate (I'm thinking for when the devs put in naval warfare).

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

You want it more engaging for the driver? I'm not seeing a problem. In faster vechicles you should be concentrating on driving only, a good driver in thresher is the key to makin the vehicles not be totally worthless. If i had a gun on it i wouldnt be driving anywhere close to as well and would be dead in short order.

100% agree which is why I focused more on changing tanks and their current gameplay of run and gun vehicles. Setting up their gameplay to be hard hitting and forcing a player to have a steady shot when aiming is important. Personally I hate how players would be racing through trees with a tank one hitting players with the main gun. That role is for buggies.

Originally Posted by Malorn

The driver/gunner model is something they got right the first time. It's a teamwork game and if the driver got primary weapons it would basically turn almost every vehicle into a 1-man vehicle, which is lame. Compare to the battlefield series where 1 man can power the main guns of a vehicle. You don't see 2-manned vehicles very often and it isn't efficient at all to do so.

Look at the reason for it though. Why don't people use the gunner seats of vehicles. It's because the driver has both a main gun and a secondary anti-infantry gun. The tank I described both the driver and gunner have important roles.

Originally Posted by ECM

your saying the vangaurd driver should have a weapon just as effective as the cannon, that don't fly, think about it...

I did think about it. The idea is to offset the weakness of the main cannon which I described would function differently than in PS1 to focus on a different use style. The "just as effective as the cannon" meant toward a different threat such as AI or AA. The main cannon would be slow and powerful at AV damage while the gunner would provide extra fire power keeping both positions in the action.

Originally Posted by Mastachief

Every suggestion i see from the OP seems to centre on SOLO killwhoring, this is a team based game.

While it might seem that way my intention is to make the game more interesting in every role a player uses without subtracting the need to have a secondary gunner. It's possible to have teamwork with a group of players without forcing mandatory teamwork to use vehicles.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

While it might seem that way my intention is to make the game more interesting in every role a player uses without subtracting the need to have a secondary gunner. It's possible to have teamwork with a group of players without forcing mandatory teamwork to use vehicles.

Each vehicle should be fitted with one role, and one role only. AV, AI, or AA. If a Vanguard driver has an AA turret as powerful as the main cannon, why would we need Skyguards? This logic applies to every vehicle in PlanetSide. This is a team-based game, and should not encourage pulling team vehicles to solo with. If you can't find a gunner, join an outfit.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Each vehicle should be fitted with one role, and one role only. AV, AI, or AA. If a Vanguard driver has an AA turret as powerful as the main cannon, why would we need Skyguards? This logic applies to every vehicle in PlanetSide. This is a team-based game, and should not encourage pulling team vehicles to solo with. If you can't find a gunner, join an outfit.

I think it's perfectly fine for vehicles with more than one person to become more versatile. Having someone pull solo vehicles specialized in one area is also valid tactic. It's no different than pulling an AA max instead of taking a skyguard. (Look at the prowler. It had an AI gun on the top along with it's main gun. Dual roles right there with extra people).

Also regarding the whole why would be need skyguards I honestly don't feel we need them in their current form. It should be a customization choice on a vehicle to offer those features to extra gunners. Having a vehicle solely designed to do AA is kind of pointless. It's basically the same as certing an TR Burster max.

The idea would be if you can't find a gunner then your vehicle would be gimped. It wouldn't be impossible to use. That is spending certifications to upgrade it or spending resources in the game on it will be more rewarding.

[basti]

Wth?

Seriously OP, who the hell are you?

First, you want BFRs again, now you want the good and perfectly fine concept of one man driving one man gunning changed into one person death machines?

[321]

Originally Posted by basti

Seriously OP, who the hell are you?

He is your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. He revealed his identity on IRC.

[ECM]

Look at the poll, it clearly shows what most people like when it comes to having a driver drive and a gunner gun. Plus MBT's have dual roles anyway because you can always mow people. They already great AV/AI anyway.

[Tycho]

The driver gun on the Magrider should be removed. A second gunner position should be added to the VS and NC MBTs. The drivers gun on the Magrider can be given to a second gunner and the machine guns on the vanguard can be manned separately. I would also like to see three or four person buggies. Why should the Terrans have the only three person vehicles?

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by basti

Wth?

Seriously OP, who the hell are you?

First, you want BFRs again, now you want the good and perfectly fine concept of one man driving one man gunning changed into one person death machines?

He flipped the bit for me too. Also, don't forget the creatures idea. Mechs, two-man vechicles made pointless, and PvE. The trifecta of Fail for PS2.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

The ability to change seats... Minus aircraft.

That is all.

Are you saying you should be able to instantly change seats in ground vehicles, if so...