News: ProSieben Responds to Community Concerns

[Bags]

Yay for RadarX~

[Mightymouser]

Originally Posted by basti

You simply cannot force players to play under Pro7 if they dont want to. Instead of giving them the choice of Pro7 or SOE, you give them the choice of Pro7 or no game. And if they dont want Pro7, then its no game for them, means no cash for you.
Yea, i know, i simplify the whole thing by a lot, and the whole topic is much more complicated. But the way i wrote it is the way most players will see it.

Just to play devil's advocate here basti, you're forgetting that Pro7 has to agree to this deal as well... If SOE gives everyone the 'choice' to use Pro7 or SOE, that cuts into Pro7's profit margins(possibly quite deeply); meanwhile they're still supposed to be providing a media front for the game in Europe. Cutting them out of the loop entirely probably isn't something they're going to want to agree to, at least not without SOE sending more funding their way.

(Obviously I have no idea what the agreement is/was, but:) I would imagine that Pro7 signed on to provide media and community support (as well as servers) with the understanding that they would be the ones making the loin's share of the money off of the Euro subscribers they bring in; so if there is a loop-hole there that allows SOE to make that money instead, Pro7's probably not going to be very happy about that, and I imagine that is what is being hammered out...

[basti]

Originally Posted by Mightymouser

Just to play devil's advocate here basti, you're forgetting that Pro7 has to agree to this deal as well... If SOE gives everyone the 'choice' to use Pro7 or SOE, that cuts into Pro7's profit margins(possibly quite deeply); meanwhile they're still supposed to be providing a media front for the game in Europe. Cutting them out of the loop entirely probably isn't something they're going to want to agree to, at least not without SOE sending more funding their way.

(Obviously I have no idea what the agreement is/was, but I would imagine that Pro7 signed on to provide media and community support (as well as servers) with the understanding that they would be the ones making the loin's share of the money off of the Euro subscribers they bring in; so if there is a loop-hole there that allows SOE to make that money instead, Pro7's probably not going to be very happy about that, and I imagine that is what is being hammered out...

With a region lock, they would literally cut themself out.
Its not a question of Pro7 or SOE, its a question of SOE or no game for a lot of people.
To build trust, one needs time, and efford. They pretty much fucked themself up with that region lock thingy. Its what happens if you have people thinking 2 much about the money and not enough about the customers. The key point is: Money happens all by itself when your customers are happy.

[Mightymouser]

Originally Posted by basti

With a region lock, they would literally cut themself out.
Its not a question of Pro7 or SOE, its a question of SOE or no game for a lot of people.
To build trust, one needs time, and efford. They pretty much fucked themself up with that region lock thingy.

Well, clearly Pro7 doesn't really see it that way; I mean they agreed to the deal with the understanding that people would want to play, and would want to play on their servers. To be honest, I would imagine they were working under the assumption that most players don't see it playing on Pro7 server's as a deal-breaker... Obviously the outcry has caused them to re-evaluate a bit, but I would still imagine they would be rather hesitant to allow anyone who wanted to to opt-out of paying them, in favor of paying SOE.

(Again this is speculation, but:) I would predict that the best compromise we can hope for is that existing subscribers will be able to be grandfathered onto SOEs servers in the new system, thus allowing existing communities to stay together, while ensuring Pro7 has a solid revenue stream, and a reasonable incentive to bring players to their games' servers. Still though, that means Pro7 is looking at fewer subscribers than expected, and that means it's going to take time to work out the deal so they don't feel shafted, and also so that SOE isn't paying crazy fees to subsidize these players on their servers...

[Sta]

Internet was always about freedom of choice!!

As long as you dont try to tell me what Ive to do or like everything is fine.

But this whole separation attempt simply leans in the opposite direction regarding my freedom to do what ever I like with my free time...

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by basti

With a region lock, they would literally cut themself out.
Its not a question of Pro7 or SOE, its a question of SOE or no game for a lot of people.
To build trust, one needs time, and efford. They pretty much fucked themself up with that region lock thingy. Its what happens if you have people thinking 2 much about the money and not enough about the customers. The key point is: Money happens all by itself when your customers are happy.

This. Absolutely this.

At least with SOE we have prior experience. We know they can't allow themselves to succeed. As a friend of mine put it so eloquently today, "they have a history of treading on their own dick".

With PSS1 however, my initial experience of them consists of them prioritizing their greed over customer satisfaction. They've already tried to screw us over in order to make a buck. A good company makes money by pleasing it's customers, not by giving them no other choice.

[RedKnights]

Originally Posted by RadarX

I hope no one took my text as me getting offended. I've been doing this long enough that is ridiculously hard to do. I'm just not in the habit of talking without a purpose. My primary goal was to provide a little more communication than you had seen this week and let everyone know we really are reading all this.

Mirror you should make it a huge deal. Whoever that is got the choicest assignment there. Just sayin...

/engage campaign for Radar X as Head PS2 Community Manager

[dachlatte]

Originally Posted by basti

The key point is: Money happens all by itself when your customers are happy.

you dont need to care about your customers if you have a monopoly. just sayin...

[DayOne]

Originally Posted by dachlatte

you dont need to care about your customers if you have a monopoly. just sayin...

But they don't have a monopoly.

[Kran De Loy]

Okay, so Region Locking was in the original plans. This means that they can and will confirm where a player is when they log into PS2 and limit that person to the selected servers for their area based on that detection.

So PSS1 and SOE can for certain, beyond doubt, know where the person is either in the EU or US or wherever.

Why not make the in-game browser or a terminal in the game world where people can shop for items and stuff, or something similar that just sends the player to the appropriate cash shop for their region instead of having to lock the entire server go that region? It's a far fairer business model for the players and the companies get what they want still.

[dachlatte]

Originally Posted by DayOne

But they don't have a monopoly.

if they keep that regin lock, then yes they do

[General M]

EU beta/access for EU players into beta?

[Boomzor]

While I understand that customer support in any form offered in the native language of the ticket holder is intended in our best interest, my personal experience from this practice has been less than stellar. Examples of games would include (but not limited to) Lineage 2, RF-Online (both Korean -> western) and WaR (US -> EU).

While I thoroughly enjoy being able to understand what the csr is saying and know that the csr understands what I'm saying, there is always the issues of what they are allowed to say. In all of the above games, EU customers eventually hit a wall in the chain of information that always meant "we can't tell you until we get word from parent company". That would be word from SOE in PS2.

Pretty much all support will need extra steps to eventually reach the customer, meaning EU will suffer longer from exploits not being discovered and hot-fixed fast enough.

It is REALLY REALLY important that pro7 has a 24/7 access to the relevant information through enough SOE representatives until they've managed to find the proper working pace to handle stuff on their own *to the satisfaction of their customers*. This step has nearly always failed before.

Also, in the FAQ there's a passage that read

Looking ahead, SOE and ProSiebenSat.1 Games will closely monitor the needs and wishes of local communities to bring special content as appropriate to European players.

Especially the "special content as appropriate to European players" were read by many sceptics on the fence as a free pass for them to continue wrecking game balance as they see fit. That needs to be removed, reworded and clarified.

Just remember, a beaten wife will never forget the abuse, no matter how often you say you won't do it again.

[Coreldan]

It has been said in two different occasions now that "as far as we know" EU players shouldnt be restricted from beta from SOEs behalf.

[Trolltaxi]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

It has been said in two different occasions now that "as far as we know" EU players shouldnt be restricted from beta from SOEs behalf.

Screw the beta, make sure EU players will play the game balanced by SOE - like the rest of the world!