Brainstorming: VS MAX Special Abilities

[StumpyTheOzzie]

lockdown and move at the same time?

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

lockdown and move at the same time?

That's called Overdrive.

[chanic]

The idea of a highly maneuverable hover mode is pretty much exactly what I thought of when I saw this thread topic. I just want to add a couple things for people to consider.

1.) If it's considered too powerful to be able to outmaneuver other MAXes, instead of slowing it down or shortening its duration, make the VS MAX unable to fire while in high mobility mode. This would mean no "circle strafe to victory" but a skilled player could still use it to zip to an advantageous position, fire, and zip off to a new spot when the enemy readjusts. This could be explained through some technobabble saying that the energy consumption of the maglift system is too high to fire weapons while it is in use.

2.) Make it so that activating the ability while in midair causes the MAX to descend slowly. This jives with the notion that it would allow for the MAX to fall great distances with no harm, but again would require player skill to activate it at the right time. Also, by jumping and then activating the mobility mode the VS MAX could glide across gaps that other MAXes wouldn't be able to clear.

3.) Because it's a hover system, it would be able to cross water as long as it had enough energy to make it to land on the other side.

4.) When in high speed mode it should be able to bowl through enemy infantry for minor damage (about the same as a quad maybe?), but not enemy MAXes or vehicles. It would lend a little offensive power to the manueverability system and also be hilarious.

Hmm... I guess that was a little more than a couple things. Oh well.

[DaddyTickles]

Hmmm. so people don't like flying Maxes? Weird people.

Ok, how about climbing? Dunno how easy it would be for the Devs to accomplish but what if VS Maxes could climb the outside of buildings or up trees?

That way the VS Max player gets their beloved "perch" while not being all flighty.

[Malorn]

Looks like the ideas are converging around a hover-mobility mode.

MAX had "run mode" in PS1, which took time to wind up and took time to power down and they couldn't fire while doing it.

I think the VS mechanic needs to be significantly different from that.

It could have a quick charge too, where it just zips forward or even teleports (Blink in many games). It could have a variety of applicaitons:
- quickly flanking
- escape
- breaching a tight defense
- avoiding certain death

Thoughts on a charge or blink-like ablity? Could make use of those wing-like things we see in the model art.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

will blink evade decimators but not strikers?

I'm ok with blink. It does fit neatly with their philosophy of agility.

[Talek Krell]

Blink seems like it would overlap a lot with the common pool Charge ability. That said we don't technically know what charge does, but my assumption is that it causes the MAX to charge forward.

One idea I considered was a teleportation ability that takes a few seconds to charge up and then eats your capacitor to move you to a point within your line of sight (preventing access to most roofs). Not sure if that one passes muster.

[Kriegson]

Too many issues with a blink imo. Seems like something that could be exploited easily or just cause some nasty geometry issues.

AFAIK the main weakness for MAX's are the turning ability, and maneuverability while firing. What if the jets allowed them to make a short "hop" in a direction to dodge or quickly maneuver to face a threat? Some of the older gundams come to mind, with their thruster assisted dodge for quick bursts of speed.

[Mr DeCastellac]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

The fuck? Having diversity in the game is good. It adds to replay-ability and gives the empires more patriotism. It allows players to find more exciting ways to play the game!


Why would you just want to remove everything instead of finding ways to improve what was a good thing in the first place?

Agreed! Besides, it was mostly fair in PS1 from what I saw, and it seems as if it would be even more fair now, what with the whole class with jump jets.

I hate the idea of removing the special abilities. That would just make MAXes the same as any other class, but slower and with more health.

Besides, they already designed the VS max with wings xD

[RNFB]

Why not jumpjets again, but nerf it if it's so OP?

Give a 2~4 second initiation to activate "flight" mode, disable guns as if they were sprinting, and a 2~4 second delay to get your weapons back online.

Add in reduced shield strength or vulnerability to lock-on AV weapons. if it needs more nerfing.

It doesn't need to go as high as it did in PS1, either.

[Malorn]

Jumpjets were too good. They have a Light Assault class which is based around the value that jump jets provide. Giving them to MAX is over the top. It was over the top in PS1 too. MAX bonuses need to be based on flavor and be distinct and impactful but not game changing. Jumpjets are game changing.

[RNFB]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Jumpjets were too good. They have a Light Assault class which is based around the value that jump jets provide. Giving them to MAX is over the top. It was over the top in PS1 too. MAX bonuses need to be based on flavor and be distinct and impactful but not game changing. Jumpjets are game changing.

How do you know that having some jumpjets at say... 20% the power of light assault and the inability to fire shortly before/after and all during would be overpowered?

Were they even that overpowered in PS1? You got to jump up base walls or to the top of the tower/hill... big deal... you still had to fight things, and not having shields like the NC or increased damage output like the TR meant the VS MAX was inferior in actual combat. Jump jets were only good outside, and MAXes were seriously vulnerable out there... a VS MAX being on top of a hill isn't going to help him avoid a TR's lockon rocket or the guided rockets of the NC.

[Mr DeCastellac]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Jumpjets were too good. They have a Light Assault class which is based around the value that jump jets provide. Giving them to MAX is over the top. It was over the top in PS1 too. MAX bonuses need to be based on flavor and be distinct and impactful but not game changing. Jumpjets are game changing.

I'd say the MAX bonuses were based on flavor :P

TR max gets faster firing weapons (They are based off of rapid-fire weapons)
NC max gets a shield (They're all about power)
and VS max gets jumpjets, as they are mainly based on agility. Seems fair to me :P

Besides, there weren't many uses for them other than getting away. If they put them in PS2, but disabled weapons while flying and for a short duration afterwards, it would be pretty fair.

Pretty much the only use is jumping over a base wall or getting up into trees, which I'm guessing won't happen in PS2 because we have the technology to make trees not just "T" shaped platforms xD
It's not even useful inside a base or getting around, so I don't see how it was OP. However, my mind is always open, and I'd love to hear an explanation as to why everyone thinks the jumpjets were OP.

[Kran De Loy]

The more I think about it, the more I see Anti Infantry or AI/AA VS MAX units playing center field for a squad of VS MAX/Light Assaults to easily dominate those out of reach areas when combating TR/NC Light Assaults who won't be able to get any kind of support because only Jets can get there.

Also keep in mind (I think in the PCG Mag) that they're making it so there will be less indoor fighting. Or less indoors in general. That would help keep fights from getting too choked down and at the same time it gives a larger advantage to all Jetters.

Also thinking about it the only options for VS MAX flavor are Jets or Faster (Something). Something faster walking speed, ...



No no the only thing I can come up with at all that doesn't bleed into the flavors of the other two factions is short burst jets. Having a sustained beam weapon is too TR (High rate of fire, low damage per tick), Shielding (already taken by NC), increased turn speed would break the balance entirely of a MAX in general, increased walk speed is just a lame version of using jets to maneuver, hovering is just the term to describe long sustained jets.


So yeah, Jump Jets are pretty much the only flavor option for VS MAXs that fits.

I mean I'm sure that the people that put together PS1 probably brainstormed to hell and back about all this and it's been talked about and debated back and forth hundreds of times since then. Why fix what ain't broke?

[DaddyTickles]

Originally Posted by Kran De Loy

Why fix what ain't broke?

Presumably because Smed and Higby got beat bad by Vanu max players?