How a cash store can be more than just a store - Page 2

Coreldan · 2012-03-17, 06:43 PM

Doesnt stop it from still being the most played Steam game atm with 50k players atm.

Although Counter Strike usually peaks some 10k higher, but still.

RNFB · 2012-03-17, 06:48 PM

I would be really angry if PS2 got silly hats. I want the cosmetic options to stay relatively serious and tasteful.... seeing a bunch of guys running around with top hats would be.... ugh..

Skitrel · 2012-03-17, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by basti

No, just no.

The cash shop shouldnt be anything else than a cash shop. You go there to speed up your leveling or get yourself some fancy stuff that looks different, and thats it.

Team Fotress 2 lost its appear to most of the TF2 crowd of old, those guys who where there since the beginning. And thats because of that damn move valve did.

Why? Where is the reasoning? You've stated an effect without explaining what the causation is. How does this relate to say - LoL - which uses the same business model and has 4million daily users while being the 4th most played game out there.

Originally Posted by Shogun

no.

my point wasn´t that the poor prisoners would be tortured playing planetside, the point was that a trading system would encourage this. and those farmers (no matter if they use prisoners or badly paid workers or even children) harm the game in 2 ways. the gameplay is influenced and soe will make less money with the game because you could buy items cheaper than in the soe store from those farmers. and we all know what will happen to ps2 if soe cannot make enough money.

Ok, off topic though as I pointed out how that's solved. Ignoring that point to support your own doesn't make my explanation of how that can be solved any less correct.

Originally Posted by RNFB

I would be really angry if PS2 got silly hats. I want the cosmetic options to stay relatively serious and tasteful.... seeing a bunch of guys running around with top hats would be.... ugh..

Again, as already mentioned, this isn't a thread about adding silly hats. Read the thread.

Shogun · 2012-03-17, 07:11 PM

just ignored the "solutions" because they wouldn´t change anything. as long as there is trade there will be the farmers who try to make money of thin air. on soes costs. crippling the trade by limitations like you suggested would also affect players so why introducing trade in the first place?

and planetside is just the wrong game for trade. its not needed

Skitrel · 2012-03-17, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Shogun

just ignored the "solutions" because they wouldn´t change anything. as long as there is trade there will be the farmers who try to make money of thin air. on soes costs. crippling the trade by limitations like you suggested would also affect players so why introducing trade in the first place?

and planetside is just the wrong game for trade. its not needed

TF2 gives out drops in EXACTLY the manner I suggested, through time drops. It doesn't damage or change a thing, because it's exactly what the model is. Once again, not a suitable argument.

basti · 2012-03-17, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Why? Where is the reasoning? You've stated an effect without explaining what the causation is. How does this relate to say - LoL - which uses the same business model and has 4million daily users while being the 4th most played game out there.

LOL is a rather different game.

And as for the reasoning: Take a look at TF2. Understand what impact the entire Trading and boxes stuff had on the game. It was devestating for any E-Sports attempt. TF2 had a bright future before the shop expanded away from Hats and more into this trading and random boxes stuff.

These days, its a Big public game, and thats it. Just a random slaughterfest, with most of the players being dicks. Join a random server, you will see loads of idiots running around, being annoying.

LOL has a similar issue. Its just not as bad there. because unlike TF2, LOL didnt completly break the game by having a shop added later.

And as shogun said: Planetside is just the wrong game. What we want are big, interresting battles, not a frigging shop where we trade boxes.

Skitrel · 2012-03-17, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by basti

LOL is a rather different game.

And as for the reasoning: Take a look at TF2. Understand what impact the entire Trading and boxes stuff had on the game. It was devestating for any E-Sports attempt. TF2 had a bright future before the shop expanded away from Hats and more into this trading and random boxes stuff.

These days, its a Big public game, and thats it. Just a random slaughterfest, with most of the players being dicks. Join a random server, you will see loads of idiots running around, being annoying.

LOL has a similar issue. Its just not as bad there. because unlike TF2, LOL didnt completly break the game by having a shop added later.

How exactly was it devastating for any esports attempt? TF2 is heavily represented in esports and was well represented for the majority of it's lifespan. I fail to see how that is at all relevant to PS2 though.

As for "idiots", that is in fact a facet of the game being F2P over the core players, there being a populous of free, highly casual players, causes the game to have a lower average skill level of people that often don't really know what they're doing.

Again though, you've failed to make points that are either relevant to PS2, or explanatory of why it's negative for the game, because neither of the things you just mentioned have anything to do with the in game store. And drops have nothing to do with gameplay, as I've already pointed out.

And as shogun said: Planetside is just the wrong game. What we want are big, interresting battles, not a frigging shop where we trade boxes.

Let's break down your argument:

"It's wrong because it's wrong"

"It's wrong because we want big interesting battles"

Do explain how some more depth to the shop damages having big interesting battles.

I'm flabbergasted by the absolute lack of any real salient points of relevance. Thus far the only argument that I can not argue against is "It's wrong because it's wrong", due to the very nature of that argument having zero substance to argue against.

If that's the core of the argument against and nobody has any real meat to make a counter as to why it would have a negative impact on the game, then the only impact is in fact, positive.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-17, 08:09 PM

The shop is the business model of the game, would be cool to be able to trade various upgrades and cosmetics. Being able to trade items doesn't seem harmful to me and could open up some unique things.

If some cosmetic items can be purchsed from in-game resources you could have outfit rewards in the form of cosmetic upgrades

I think the key concept and trading has potential for things from the classic Holiday hats from PS1 to the highly sought Sunderer Truck Nuts.

Then again I can also see the trading and key thing becoming tedious when people could simply just buy the cosmetics they want.

Verruna · 2012-03-18, 12:10 AM

Trading in TF2 is a very tedious thing. Not that i think its a completely bad system, i just don't for the life of me see it tieing into Planetside very well at all. Visualizing what TF2 trading has become, and dropping that into Planetside scares the living crap out of me - i'd rather just pay small sums of money for the decals i want out of the store.

Capt Mytre · 2012-03-18, 06:30 AM

Don't know if anyone has posted this, but unless done right, it can lead to "bots" being made to specifically collect items however they may be farmed. If trading can't make it into the game, I would like a "Buy for:" ability to purchase items for friends.

Zulthus · 2012-03-18, 06:50 AM

Skitrel, you should just leave PSU and join a debate team, since we're not good enough for you. People are giving their opinions and all you have to say is "hurr no argument, your argument sucks, fallacy, you're stupid, random crap about psychology".

This is a game forum to discuss PS2, not to write each other multi-paragraph essays describing you multiple points that are correct, in your opinion, and bullshit about your arguments always being right and relevant and you breaking ours down to "it's wrong because it's wrong". Just get over yourself. I have nothing against you, but damn, you're really getting annoying.

On topic, I agree with most, this is an MMOFPS, not a game to fucking trade boxes with each other.

SuperMorto · 2012-03-18, 08:04 AM

I don't see any problem with this, if it doesn't affect game play and brings more people then let me shoot the new folks with the fancy hats!!

Coreldan · 2012-03-18, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by SuperMorto

I don't see any problem with this, if it doesn't affect game play and brings more people then let me shoot the new folks with the fancy hats!!

It has a huge hit on immersion though to have people run around with out of place hats.

I'm all for using the "hat" as an analogy kinda thing. It suits TF2, the game is already ridicilously arcade by default, no problems there. It does not however suit PS2 in any way.

So as long as the "hat" refers to anything that actually suits the style of the game, I don't really mind

basti · 2012-03-18, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

How exactly was it devastating for any esports attempt? TF2 is heavily represented in esports and was well represented for the majority of it's lifespan. I fail to see how that is at all relevant to PS2 though.

As for "idiots", that is in fact a facet of the game being F2P over the core players, there being a populous of free, highly casual players, causes the game to have a lower average skill level of people that often don't really know what they're doing.

Again though, you've failed to make points that are either relevant to PS2, or explanatory of why it's negative for the game, because neither of the things you just mentioned have anything to do with the in game store. And drops have nothing to do with gameplay, as I've already pointed out.

Let's break down your argument:

"It's wrong because it's wrong"

"It's wrong because we want big interesting battles"

Do explain how some more depth to the shop damages having big interesting battles.

I'm flabbergasted by the absolute lack of any real salient points of relevance. Thus far the only argument that I can not argue against is "It's wrong because it's wrong", due to the very nature of that argument having zero substance to argue against.

If that's the core of the argument against and nobody has any real meat to make a counter as to why it would have a negative impact on the game, then the only impact is in fact, positive.

So, ive spend some time today and went through a good chunk of your posts

Its fairly obvious now that you are just a troll...

Crator · 2012-03-18, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Coreldan

It has a huge hit on immersion though to have people run around with out of place hats.

I'm all for using the "hat" as an analogy kinda thing. It suits TF2, the game is already ridicilously arcade by default, no problems there. It does not however suit PS2 in any way.

So as long as the "hat" refers to anything that actually suits the style of the game, I don't really mind

I agree with Coreldan on this point. I would approve of only 3 types of silly hats/helmets in PS2 (Smurfs, Elmo, and Barney helmets)... :P Even then, I'm still kind of joking....