Revisiting Artillery, because its in.

Grognard · 2012-05-30, 04:51 PM

Here are the reference links:

Interview with Matt (timeframe 32:15-35:30):
http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...59&postcount=1

Supplementary reference by Matt (BC 2 Arty):
Battlefield Bad Company Beta Artillery Gameplay - YouTube

Artillery by the name of Orbital Strike is artillery, and is even referenced by Matt as artillery, especially the TR variant. However, this artillery is not a vehicle, and I like this implementation. Why? Because PS1s constant barrage of spammy C5 splendor became rediculous... Apparently they have this in mind by limiting the use, not removing the use of artillery, though we are calling it an orbital strike. Which, in my opinion, is just a futuristic evolution of the artillery mechanic anyway, so it fits in perfectly.

Most importantly to me, it will be there... and I will not feel like there is a big hole in the "art of war" where artillery should be

(...that is a big fat shit-eating grin, BTW). I have played many board games where there was "off-board" artillery, and I always loved that mechanic, and was hoping they would find a way to apply it in PS2, and here it is. "Big guns" in the distance, brought to bear... very happy.

We may not have a Flail (thank God), nor an MLRS, SPA, Fixed Gun, Field Gun, Death Star, whatever... but the "off-board" mechanic is very familiar to me, and I am happy to see an online game manifestation of it in PS2. Especially given the resource cost, timing variations, multiple patterns, and warhead yields... described by Matt, which is more than I could have asked for in an "OS"

Bags · 2012-05-30, 04:53 PM

I thought he said it was similar to artillery because it was indirect fire not because it's an artillery.

Grognard · 2012-05-30, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

I thought he said it was similar to artillery because it was indirect fire not because it's an artillery.

"A rose by any other name, would smell as sweet"...

Stardouser · 2012-05-30, 04:56 PM

Artillery needs to be from a physical source like a Flail that can be hunted down and killed. Not an off the map unlimited source like BC2 that has an extremely short cooldown.

Most people don't want Flail because they they cannot accept a strategic element to the game that requires a strategic response(sending units to kill the Flails), a lot of people want duel simulators in which you are able to immediately respond by firing back. Now, if that's what people want, that's fine to want a duel sim, but don't claim to embrace strategy if you seek to remove strategic assets.

Bags · 2012-05-30, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Grognard

"A rose by any other name, would smell as sweet"...

But we've known OS's were in for a while now.

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Most people don't want Flail because they they cannot accept a strategic element to the game that requires a strategic response(sending units to kill the Flails), a lot of people want duel simulators in which you are able to immediately respond by firing back. Now, if that's what people want, that's fine to want a duel sim, but don't claim to embrace strategy if you seek to remove strategic assets.

I don't want it because I don't want people like Ubermenshen hiding next to a capital dome spamming artillery all day ruining fights and racking up kills. Not to mention flails in PS1 killed more teammates than enemies.

It is simply not a fun mechanic.

NCLynx · 2012-05-30, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Grognard

"A rose by any other name, would smell as sweet"...

There's still a huge difference.

When I hear artillery (especially in PS terms) I think of a flail sitting incredibly far away and just sitting somewhere firing into the sky. This would require you to be relatively close(r).

Grognard · 2012-05-30, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

But we've known OS's were in for a while now.

I was not aware of the implementation, until now.

**Malorn** · 2012-05-30, 05:01 PM

I like how Matt described it. Its reasonable.

They could also add artillery as capturable and also a destroyable structure, like one of many capture nodes for a facility. One capturable node could be an artillery battery that could be used to bombard targets on the other side of the continent using a map-based targeting system from inside a control room.

That gives strategic options to capture that artillery, destroy it, or hold the control room.

I think that could be done in addition to the orbital strike mechanics Higby is talking about. This sort of artillery would be something that is on a shorter cooldown and potentially a lot more devastating.

Stardouser · 2012-05-30, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I like how Matt described it. Its reasonable.

They could also add artillery as capturable and also a destroyable structure, like one of many capture nodes for a facility. One capturable node could be an artillery battery that could be used to bombard targets on the other side of the continent using a map-based targeting system from inside a control room.

That gives strategic options to capture that artillery, destroy it, or hold the control room.

I think that could be done in addition to the orbital strike mechanics Higby is talking about. This sort of artillery would be something that is on a shorter cooldown and potentially a lot more devastating.

This. I was thinking that if people hate Flails because they can move, there could be several locations throughout a continent that are nominally in the middle of nowhere in which an empire can send a team of engineers and build artillery firebases. Since they would be constructed structures, they could be destroyed by bombardment, OR they could be captured intact by infantry. This would add depth to the engineer role, encourage combat away from main bases, and, since these locations would be fixed, you always know where they are if they are bombing you.

Originally Posted by Bags

But we've known OS's were in for a while now.

I don't want it because I don't want people like Ubermenshen hiding next to a capital dome spamming artillery all day ruining fights and racking up kills. Not to mention flails in PS1 killed more teammates than enemies.

It is simply not a fun mechanic.

I have never supported that artillery would have a range long enough to sit next to a shield. It should be 1 KM range, no more, perhaps even less if that's what it takes. Pursuant to the idea I gave in response to Malorn above, those firebases would have limited range too, when the front line moves, you would have to build a new one in order to support your troops with artillery.

Grognard · 2012-05-30, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I like how Matt described it. Its reasonable.

They could also add artillery as capturable and also a destroyable structure, like one of many capture nodes for a facility. One capturable node could be an artillery battery that could be used to bombard targets on the other side of the continent using a map-based targeting system from inside a control room.

That gives strategic options to capture that artillery, destroy it, or hold the control room.

I think that could be done in addition to the orbital strike mechanics Higby is talking about. This sort of artillery would be something that is on a shorter cooldown and potentially a lot more devastating.

100% agree.

Though, at least we have a variety of "off-board" artillery, and that is at least enough for me to salivate. I too, would like vehicle version, but most important to me is the presence of the combined arms effect, to which artillery is a part. Now, in this structured implementation (yield, pattern, timing, resources), it will at least be there

Atheosim · 2012-05-30, 05:12 PM

I like the idea of a base called Uplink Facility or something similar that increases the accuracy/damage of OSs when captured.

sylphaen · 2012-05-30, 05:24 PM

What about something deployed by a soldier and visible by enemies ?
e.g. from ET:RtcW:
1. throw a colored smoke grenade
2. wait 10 seconds
3. artillery shots land

Timealude · 2012-05-30, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Artillery needs to be from a physical source like a Flail that can be hunted down and killed. Not an off the map unlimited source like BC2 that has an extremely short cooldown.

Most people don't want Flail because they they cannot accept a strategic element to the game that requires a strategic response(sending units to kill the Flails), a lot of people want duel simulators in which you are able to immediately respond by firing back. Now, if that's what people want, that's fine to want a duel sim, but don't claim to embrace strategy if you seek to remove strategic assets.

but higby just said in that video its going to have a long cool down and cost resources.

Grognard · 2012-05-30, 05:39 PM

Think about the implementation of our new friend the "OS"... These are all described by Matt.

1. Resource cost/timer:
This will kill the spam or make you a one trick pony for a short time, and make it something to use sparingly, with some forethought. Though, multiple coordinated "users" might be able to carpet, we'll see.

2. Timing variations:
Short timer is akin to the sychronized artillery bursts used to make a kill zone you can not escape, or take cover from. Long timer creates a detention area, where you keep out of, because you dont know where and when the next one is going to drop, for a duration, ie. heads down... suppression...

3. Multiple patterns:
Varied terrain, different angles of approach, large area, small area, enemy dispersal... Now we can adjust fire for that, and select patterns of impact.

4. Warhead yields:
High resource big yield for breaking a stalemate. Low yield, less resource for suppression, and thinning the herd. This is how I understand what he said, and it equates to "caliber".

5. Ammo:
Hell, he even metioned a "pool", like grenades. You purchase strikes, with resources, and call-in your artillery as needed.

This implementation smacks of remote-model artillery to me. We can call it an "OS" though, they do the same thing. Point is, artillery is in. This isnt just an EMP blast kill zone now...

Edit: Ammo reference.

DOUBLEXBAUGH · 2012-05-30, 05:41 PM

Artillery in the form of a flail is something that while makes perfect sense to use in real life, doesn't translate to fun in a game.

Artillery in the form of an OS is something I think most people are ok with. As long as there is enough restrictions so its like the OSes from 03, rare, not the OSes from 05+, every 10 seconds.