Potential For Selling Pay To Win - Page 9

Virulence · 2012-06-04, 10:13 PM

I think calling it a 3x resource boost is a bit... Premature.

I'm pretty sure that reward (as seen on their facebook app) gives three experience amplifiers and three resource amplifiers, not an experience amplifier with a 300% modifier or a resource amplifier with a 300% modifier.

CTheRain · 2012-06-04, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

put in enough time and it goes away. for the record, I'm all for dissolving leveling entirely.

Same with Xp boost. After enough time it won't matter anymore. In a typical RPG MMO the more dedicated players will level up quicker, do dungeons first, find out certain things others will not and take advantage of the slowbies.

p0intman · 2012-06-04, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by CTheRain

Same with Xp boost. After enough time it won't matter anymore. In a typical RPG MMO the more dedicated players will level up quicker, do dungeons first, find out certain things others will not and take advantage of the slowbies.

my god you're clueless.

normal MMOs let you gain that boost while logged off and in a specific area. this way they want to nickle and dime you for that advantage. thats bullshit and it clearly is an advantage.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-04, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Virulence

I think calling it a 3x resource boost is a bit... Premature.

I'm pretty sure that reward (as seen on their facebook app) gives three experience amplifiers and three resource amplifiers, not an experience amplifier with a 300% modifier or a resource amplifier with a 300% modifier.

That is a possibility. And the thread title is "Potential for selling pay to win"

Clearly the takeaway for the devs is that they need to be very careful how boosts affect resources, as resource modifiers are definitely an avenue for P2W. The fact that they exist is worthy cause for discussion.

CTheRain · 2012-06-04, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

It isn't the same as an XP boost. People are trying to argue for resource boosts as if they are XP boosts. They are not.

Resources earned and consumed per unit time does not change if you play 60 hours a week vs 2 hours a week.

A resource boost of the order of 3x would allow the person who has it to spam grenades, always have medkits, and use large orbital strikes on cooldown, not to mention be immune to and not care about the entire resource aspect of the game.

I will agree the ratio needs to be toned down a bit. But taking it completely out of the game I will not.

Xyntech · 2012-06-04, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

with the second, anyone who is playing is on an even playing field.

Presumably they would still need some form of free player to keep the player counts up. I'm sure Planetside would have continued with the reserve system if the game hadn't been so broken and easy to exploit. So what you would likely end up with in a heavily subscription based model would be reservists who had some significant limitations like the BR8 of the first game.

The reservists in Planetside were still able to kill subscribers, quite easily in fact. I wouldn't call the Planetside of that era "P2W." I'd have only called it that if the reservists had been given a lot more significant limitations to their effectiveness, such as half hitpoints/shields, half damage for all of their guns, -33% speed on all of their vehicles, -33% ammo in their guns, 4x as long vehicle/MAX spawn times, etc.

My idea of P2W starts when a free player can't reasonably expect to win against another player based entirely on the fact that the other player has paid money.

I agree that there is a risk of the game slipping further towards P2W, but that's just reason to be vigilant and speak against it, and to support the game by purchasing things like cosmetic items to keep them from needing to search desperately for more income. There are some very successful games that use F2P that does not match my definition of P2W, so I'm confident that Planetside 2 has a good chance of doing the same.

But again, let's exploit the hell out of it in beta. I'm game for making the system as balanced as possible within the bounds of the game making money.

CutterJohn · 2012-06-04, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

put in enough time and it goes away. for the record, I'm all for dissolving leveling entirely.

Only if you stick around long enough. New players will forever be behind vets. New players can only equal vets when they themselves become vets. At which point they'll be advantaged over the newbs.

I agree with ditching it though. Experience is a relic of PnP games where the player couldn't actually get better at the game through personal skill. It is unnecessary in skill based games like FPSs.

P2W I find to be only mildly annoying, since, while I find the imbalance distasteful, it has the upside of encouraging people to pay for the upkeep of the game. Its not something you want to have to do, it is simply something that could need to be done. If thats the case, so be it.

CTheRain · 2012-06-04, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

my god you're clueless.

normal MMOs let you gain that boost while logged off and in a specific area. this way they want to nickle and dime you for that advantage. thats bullshit and it clearly is an advantage.

Insults? Like going down the social pyramid huh?

I was commenting on what you said. After awhile the progression, the experience boost or any kind of leveling will be null. Lets just agree to wipe every max level person when a new player starts the game because its unfair. I think that's the best idea for the game. You know because you hate unfairness and advantages. I treat the options to the game and compare them to life. Life isn't fair, why should the game be? If I went and bought BF3 and bought the weapon kit at level 1. I got a really big advantage over anyone else. But you know what? I'm still gonna get owned because I'd be a new player or they're people better than me.

Prox12 will return, also.

IMMentat · 2012-06-04, 10:25 PM

It's a social/class sytem. In the end its not the paying that people object to, its the perception that if I can't or don't want to pay something why should I be at a disadvantage?

Have a gradient of prices, don't overcharge for items and have regular price reductions, sales and bundle deals and the playerbase will accept a lot.

Most important is to make sure that any advantages are small enough that a good player is able to compete, even if they only devote time rather than money.

mirwalk · 2012-06-04, 10:25 PM

I don't know if the resource boost will be that big of a deal. They have stated that you can only get X amount of resources before you cap. So its not like I would be stockpiling 1mil in a resource and moving out a fleet of tanks and what not.
Depending on how fast we get resources, it may very will be near moot. If an average good gamer and keep from going to 0 each time he plays, due to good choices instead of spamming like a noob. Then who cares if at the end of the day his resources were 1000 instead of 100?

Heck I think in the live cast the guy had 2500 to start and he was running low by the end of the stream.

I think the camo stuff will sell well, due to how bright the normal colors are. You would probably be skipped over by other players with the right camo as they would go after the easily seen kill? Is that not P2W? I made it so other people can't pick me out nearly as easily.

I have to agree with other people that PS2 needs to be F2P as that is the only way you will grow the community. MMOFPS? for 60 bucks? Nah I don't like MMOs or I don't like FPS.. Or come on dude try it for free and see if it is any good.

TeaReks · 2012-06-04, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

my god you're clueless.

normal MMOs let you gain that boost while logged off and in a specific area. this way they want to nickle and dime you for that advantage. thats bullshit and it clearly is an advantage.

PS2 will not survive on cosmetic items alone. I have been playing SOE games since EQ1 in 2000. Right now my main account has $300 of station cash that I plan to blow on day one of Planetside 2.

I fully expect weapons to be on the market. The thing is they will not have weapons that you can only get on the market. You have two options, investing time or money.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-04, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by CTheRain

I will agree the ratio needs to be toned down a bit. But taking it completely out of the game I will not.

If you want something to help the casual players enjoy more resources for short play sessions, do what WoW did with Rested XP. Do the same thing, with Rested Resources. Longer you don't play, the more double-resource generation you get. Regulars will get very little rested, while casuals can enjoy a bit more lenience on the resource aspect of the game. Problem solved. No need for boosts. "Rested" xp was a fantastic idea. No reason it shouldn't be applied to PlanetSide 2 for both XP and Resources for casual players.

I would much prefer resource boosts be in-game benefits from facilities and/or continent domination. That's a sort of boost that you can deny the enemy and claim for yourself. Hell maybe that's the meaningful bonus an "Amp" station gives you - amplified resources. 10% bonus for each amp station your empire controls on the continent. Collect all three!

Dagron · 2012-06-04, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Presumably they would still need some form of free player to keep the player counts up.

...

My idea of P2W starts when a free player can't reasonably expect to win against another player based entirely on the fact that the other player has paid money.

I agree that there is a risk of the game slipping further towards P2W, but that's just reason to be vigilant and speak against it, and to support the game by purchasing things like cosmetic items to keep them from needing to search desperately for more income.

...

But again, let's exploit the hell out of it in beta. I'm game for making the system as balanced as possible within the bounds of the game making money.

QFT.

p0intman · 2012-06-04, 10:33 PM

You know what microtransactions are fine for? Single player games and games from korea and asia in general.

CTheRain · 2012-06-04, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

You know what microtransactions are fine for? Single player games and games from korea and asia in general.

Well I did play MapleStory for 2 years before the Big Bang update and spent around $300 on 2x experience boosts to get to level 200 in 4 months.