How do you feel about the current TTK? - Page 3

Stew · 2012-06-09, 10:57 PM

the ttk seams effcient and rewarding i think i will not like to see it change thats much depending on weapon and cert BETA will told us thats but so far the TTK seams ok to me

Stew · 2012-06-09, 11:01 PM

to long TTK also lead to the numbers = wins and i think we must avoid this as most as possible in a game where you can be only 30 people defending agains 100 with a high ttk you have no chance even if your a really high skills player !

i think thats ttk and headshot bonus must split awesome player from garbage in huge outfit players count unfair battle with low ttk you vae a chance to push back those noobs zerg ! High ttk = hopeless in this situation and will ruins the game

numbers dont have to be everything and in a game with planetside2 scales the ttk have to be low not to low but low and the headshot multiplier have to make the psplit beeetween awesome and crappy players !

Also having to reload 3 time to kill one guys simply isnt satisfaying its stupid and creat the worst gameplay experience ever !

Revelator · 2012-06-09, 11:05 PM

I scrapped this whole big thing that compared a good area of damage between BF3(relatively low TTK) and Planetside 1(much higher TTK) but then I thought, hmm, well this is a new game, there are also so many things to take into account such as: Armor, Shields, Classes, Weapons, etc, and etc. Too much to take into account with actually seeing what I have before me, so all I will say is: This game takes place story-wise in the future, that means Armor, and shield will be designed to stop bullets, but also that bullets will be designed to penetrate armor and shield(quality vs lack of quality bullets is another thing to take into effect, not to mention how the VS uses energy weapons) I think its just gonna have to be one of those things where they go in an look at each and every thing(esp with hit-boxes.) Needless to say I think it should be a lower TTK, enough that it feels more real, than arcade.

xcel · 2012-06-09, 11:08 PM

From what I saw at E3, it seemed like the TTK was a little low for my taste. I would prefer a halo ttk, or at least something slightly higher.

I honestly despise the *whoever sees who first generally gets the kill* style gameplay. This is mainly why I find cod so frustrating. Give the players a chance to retaliate!

Knightwyvern · 2012-06-09, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by xcel

From what I saw at E3, it seemed like the TTK was a little low for my taste. I would prefer a halo ttk, or at least something slightly higher.

I honestly despise the *whoever sees who first generally gets the kill* style gameplay. This is mainly why I find cod so frustrating. Give the players a chance to retaliate!

I agree. It's balanced by the fact that if you do let that sniper line up a headshot or let that cloaker sneak up behind you with a shotgun, it's your fault. :P

Bags · 2012-06-09, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Infantry TTK didn't look as awful as I was expecting, knowing they're deliberately making the game more Battlefield-like. Except for the light assault maybe, but that's hard to judge before having seen it in the hands of a good player. I'm not ok with insta-kill headshots, I just know people are going to be jackasses with it indoors.

The main thing you want to avoid is "whoever see the other guy first wins", not because I think there's no skill in that kind of gameplay, but because I find it ridiculously boring. I tried Battlefield 3 the other day, and it boggles my mind that people can enjoy that shit.

Vehicle TTK, especially tanks, is pathetically low. If that doesn't get sorted out I'll probably be done with the game really fast.

I saw heavy assaults being killed before they (or anyone in their shoes) could react.

No bueno.

Revanmug · 2012-06-09, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dairian

I am sure I was making a generalization of short and long TTK. I didn't say anything about the stream.

Longer TTK gives anyone skilled or not the ability to use more than a snapshot. And actually hold a bead to kill someone.

Very true but it doesn't change his fate. The first player that start is going to win if both of them be on the same lvl skill wise. It is nothing more but a "at least I whack him down a bit". Escaping is not an option as the ttk right now is high enough to permit it (for your door exemple). A too high ttk would permit error like going in area without cover before checking for enemy since the player could just run all the way back and wait, surviving his mistake. That sound quite like lowering the skill floor! In other words, both opposite are bad.

Does no one remember the UT instagib? That was always quite popular and the most skilled player was assure to be at the top even though is was the lowest ttk possible. Then again, it was a railgun and movement were faster making hits a little harder.

I still think ttk doesn't affect "too much" skill base game. In the stream, it wasn't soo short that you couldn't answer back (except if you are in the middle of nowhere). The mechanic involved in this game is what might change the skill floor.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Bags

I saw heavy assaults being killed before they (or anyone in their shoes) could react.

No bueno.

Care to say when? I would be curious to see. Way too many hour of stream to recheck.

TheInferno · 2012-06-09, 11:38 PM

I have no clue, since I never played Planetside.

Elfailio brings up a point, though... not only were these guys relatively new gameplay wise, they weren't using their abilities well. I never saw any use of a MAX ability period, and the Heavy Assault shield wasn't used much.

The shield, from what I gathered from the stream, really lets you take one heck of a pounding, even from a tank, to allow you to get those crucial shots off. Until we see how abilities like that affect the game balance, we can't make more than a relative guess at how things should be.

Then again, the only thing people have been doing is making relative guesses, so *shrug*

LPRaver · 2012-06-09, 11:43 PM

Id like to play the beta before I make a judgement on the TTK on Planetside 2 but I hope they do not make it as long as Planetside. I was a casual player back when the game came out do to having a crappy computer that could barely play it.

However much I love the game and cant wait for the second I always had a really hard time killing anyone in Planetside. I am pretty good at shooters and I found it so frustrating that it was so hard to kill people. I always had a blast when playing but always had very low kills and sometimes after hours of playing never had one kill to show for it.

For that reason I think id like to see it around the E3 footage level. Some minor tweaking is always important but I hope it does not go back to the level that the original Planetside had.

Vexus · 2012-06-09, 11:53 PM

As a long time FPS player but new to Planetside, I think that a longer TTK number is better.

The trend has been to shorten the TTK from the early days of DooM/Quake etc. No doubt quick kills happened and were fun, but to me the most enjoyable combat was the longer combat that allowed for movement, LOS and and positioning to have a greater part in the outcome of the fight.

With the truly massive nature of Planetside 2, damage will be coming from a myriad of directions and sources. So, I would even be happier with a longer TTK if the new FPS converts would accept it. Given that the current PS2 TTK is the longest, I'm happy where it's at. But, if given my preference, I would even extend it a bit more.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-09, 11:55 PM

Seems too fast to me. Maybe about 30% slower would be about right, which could be achieved by a damage reduction across the board.

Verruna · 2012-06-10, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by elfailo

It doesn't change his fate? No, not when you're talking about bots that always hit the same amount of bullets. But we aren't averages. The whole point is to differentiate good from bad players, and one way to do so is by aim. When you die before you can fight back, that element is removed. What remains is making sure you see the other guy first, which tends to boil down to camping chokepoints and popular routes to objectives.

I mostly agree with this. In PS1, consistent aiming felt more skill based than twitch shots like in some other fps.

My general feeling is TTK is a bit low in the e3 footage, but not by TOO much. Its a completely different game than PS1 on many levels and might be balanced out considering all the different classes and abilities. Hell, it may even become more tactical in the basic how a squad approaches a position.

raidyr · 2012-06-10, 12:24 AM

TTK seems a bit too low from the E3 footage but I'd have to play it to give real feedback.

If it does end up being too low, globally reducing damage shouldn't be too difficult; BF3 did it between alpha and beta.

Zhane · 2012-06-10, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

It depends heavily on who gets into the early sections of beta, and how early they start looking heavily at other-than-bug feedback. It would be quite easy for the first wave of 200 to all be a combination of low TTK lovers, "the devs know what they are doing" people, and various others that would rubber-stamp what we've got right now.

Uh. Of course the devs know what they're doing - that's why they are professional game developers and not armchair forum jockeys. Whether everyone agrees with what they do is another matter, but to question whether they know "what they are doing" lacks tact and common sense.

wraithverge · 2012-06-10, 12:39 AM

Things to note about planetside, this is not CoD, this is not BF3, you are assaulting specific points and knowing where someone is going to be coming from should give you a huge advantage, likewise, knowing where defenders camp should do the same, send in one scout to spot them all and you can see them through walls.

This is not a roving kill game, this is a strategic tactical game. I think the TTK is a fraction of a second too high, but the players I were watching were not amazing. I believe we will have to wait for beta before even speculating as we have no idea how organized groups will play, the people in the beta were disorganized at best, they didn't send in LA to scout and spot, they didn't follow up with a wave of HA/MAX and medics/engies backing them, nor did they stay long enough for a medic to revive after the room was swept. After a couple weeks when people start using the involved and heavy tactics, then this can be re-evaluated, until then I think it's as close to perfect as it's going to get.