Gameplay: Idea to prevent multi-acct griefing

Hmuda · 2012-06-13, 12:05 PM

Since it's not beta yet, let alone release, we can only throw ideas around to prevent possible griefing and intentional team killing that will inevitably come out of the free to play system, since everyone and their moms can create a new account for the sole purpose of making their enemies' life a living hell.

This is what popped into my head just now, that would keep intentional team-kills at a minimum (hopefully).

First: minimum level to qualify for the big league. Let's say that you would need a 5 level minimum in order to activate friendly fire (or whatever number the devs would see fit). Besides making griefers having to work for the privilege to annoy others, it would help new players to ease into the game, giving them a bit of leeway in the beginning. After every level, you would get a noticeable message (mailing system?) that would remind newbies that at level 5, s**t will get real, and the time necessary to reach said level would deter trolls from bothering with it, but still short enough to qualify as a learning period at the same time. I think I overstated it, but there, couldn't be clearer.

And second: a way to give actual penalty for intentional team kills. Sure, it will be unavoidable that someone at some point will accidentally shoot down a Galaxy full of friendlies, but I'm also sure, that there is a way to catch those who only register team kills over a certain period of time (or a disproportional large difference between friendly to non-friendly kills). Of course, notable griefers would have to be punished in a way, that would force them to wait a long time to be able to grief again (temporary ban in extreme cases, for which I thought this little system up in the first place) and they would have to make a new account in order to keep playing (unless they wait, what they won't).

I'm sure the developers threw ideas around way more than my little brainfart here, but I thought I would share, if by some cosmic coincident this option didn't come up yet.

Talek Krell · 2012-06-13, 06:39 PM

The second is pretty much incorporated into the existing system. The first would create a balance issue involving the use of explosive weaponry. Plus, fundamental changes in the game physics part way through leveling seems like it would just be needlessly complicated.

Ait'al · 2012-06-29, 06:38 PM

I think they need to remove grief and just allow people to killing each other again. It was much better back when this game first started. It was necessary to kill your friends when they acted stupid in a hallway and was vital for combat. having to avoid fire in mission critical situation where you could never do anything to resolve it but blow them away is completely handicapping the game. It should have never existed. It is basically a requirement in this game to maintain strategic play. Or you can never stop anyone from standing in front of you and stopping you. the benefits infinitely out way the downside. and it's fun to boot.

It absolutely matters that you can lay so and so amount of firepower on said position. if that is the case killing others as fast as possible is the only way to maintain the game play. Period. Grief system toppled the game. It needs to be put back(or removed in this case) so this game can go back to smarter play.

Besides, a grief less system is more intelligent and diverse. You actually have to deal with it yourself intelligently or blow each other away. Not much of a loss with infinite spawns. A grief system is just a tool to let people be lazy and snobby. It has never done the game any good and completely destroyed it's community. At least in a grief less system you are in an environment to address the realities. In the opposite you just sit back and bitch a lot AND can't do anything about it. And again it interferes with combat. When you milliseconds to correct the situation and get back to hitting the enemy sometimes if not a lot of the time you just have to blow their heads off. That is how it used to be done and it was done well and worked. Then it didn't interfere with a base cap which nothing should.

In fact as I've pointed out it completely aids the guy being a pain in the ass. In fact it makes certain one side is always dominant(the guy standing in front no matter what he is doing or why he is doing it.) instead of being both ways without grief. It does not in any way begin to address the realities of the game it is pointed at and completely interferes with game flow. I don't know why it wasn't removed immediately after implementation. At least without grief any side has a chance of winning the argument/shootout. With grief one side always wins(The guy in front and with that 95% of the time the enemy faction) and the game does not play out that simply you need to be able to deal with things in a more complicated manner. Hence why the game did not have a grief system originally. It is a shame no one can understand that and it is not a serious consideration if not the reality in the game. As it should be.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-29, 06:42 PM

Friendly fire is important. There are other ways they can prevent multi-account griefing, like having grief bound to hardware ID in addition to the character, so if you rack up grief on another character from the same PC all of your characters get locked.

You also want new players to learn about friendly fire and learn to not shoot teammates.

One thing Higby mentioned a while back was that the grief system would take character age into consideration, so new characters would rack up grief a lot faster than characters with a lot of play time. So it starts sensitive and then dials back as you play the game.

I think that could work out well.

Karrade · 2012-06-30, 10:39 AM

Griefing may be a big problem in PS2, it was aggravating in the early days of PS1 when it happened and there we had mechanics in place to limit it. Here I've seen no mention yet of how they will deal with it, they've even said it'll be relaxed?

I envision people getting into slugging matches in the spawn areas, people blowing up consoles etc

. In F2P they are going to need very smart ways of dealing with multi account griefers, there are a few but there are ways around these also.

The only one I ever come back to thinking about, is friendly fire damage could be 100/50. If you shoot a friendly, you get 50% of his damage as well as him getting the usual 100% - Aoe is still limited just the same, (its actually limited even more) and you'll die if you go around shooting people on purpose.

Traak · 2012-06-30, 11:07 AM

LOL Take away grief?

No way. I think they should amplify it, so if you kill someone, you die. If you shoot the same guy twice in one week, you are banned for a month.

More grief penalties are a great idea. And stricter rules. You run over a friendly in a tank, you lose the ability to pull a tank for a month. If you get to the point where you are completely weaponless, then your character is banned, all stats lost.

Take away grief? No, there are people who play this game who are just not trustworthy, and giving them a free pass to murder everyone in sight? Nah. We already have too much spying going on. Making spies able to just wear the opposite team's uniform and have a free pass to kill everything and everyone?

Can't happen.

OutlawDr · 2012-06-30, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Traak

No way. I think they should amplify it, so if you kill someone, you die. If you shoot the same guy twice in one week, you are banned for a month.

No you can't do that because players will then jump in your line of fire to intentionally get themselves killed by you. Trolling and griefing swings both ways with too strict a system ..or too lax

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-07-01, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Traak

LOL Take away grief?

No way. I think they should amplify it, so if you kill someone, you die. If you shoot the same guy twice in one week, you are banned for a month.

More grief penalties are a great idea. And stricter rules. You run over a friendly in a tank, you lose the ability to pull a tank for a month. If you get to the point where you are completely weaponless, then your character is banned, all stats lost.

That's too much... TKs are sometimes necessary to, for example, prevent an asshat from blowing the gens during a good fight or something of that nature.

InternetZombie · 2012-07-02, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by Traak

LOL Take away grief?

No way. I think they should amplify it, so if you kill someone, you die. If you shoot the same guy twice in one week, you are banned for a month.

More grief penalties are a great idea. And stricter rules. You run over a friendly in a tank, you lose the ability to pull a tank for a month. If you get to the point where you are completely weaponless, then your character is banned, all stats lost.

Take away grief? No, there are people who play this game who are just not trustworthy, and giving them a free pass to murder everyone in sight? Nah. We already have too much spying going on. Making spies able to just wear the opposite team's uniform and have a free pass to kill everything and everyone?

Can't happen.

Do you have any idea how many infiltraters I end up running over? I just dont see them...

So if I happen to run over some guy because I cant see him I end up losing the ability to pull a tank for a month? Thats a load of crap, what happens when I spawn a vehicle and some idiot is standing over the bay doors? Do I get to not play for a month?

If you make it that strict nobody is going to play it

Kezz · 2012-07-03, 06:42 AM

Personally, I think the Grief system in PS1 is pretty good, now I understand it a bit better. The idea of making Grief accrue faster for fresh accounts is sorta counterintuitive for making the game accessible, but if it's well explained, it'll make sense to newbs and deter the multis. I think it does need to be well explained, though, or the overly keen will grab a GL out the gate and get instantly grieflocked, never to play the game again, and, more importantly, they'll badmouth the game to their mates. While it seems all badass to want a grenade-spammer to not get far in the game, people do start off young, and need edumication.

With TTKs as speedy as they seem to be at the moment, there will be no need to TK someone blocking your field of fire; the opposition will rapidly take care of that for you.

Blue Sam · 2012-07-03, 04:45 PM

Easy. Copy/paste (with some tweaks to make it fit) the grief system from PS1, with an added penalty of a timed IP ban if there are two accounts from the same IP hitting the server-kick threshold within a given time.

Karrade · 2012-07-03, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Blue Sam

Easy. Copy/paste (with some tweaks to make it fit) the grief system from PS1, with an added penalty of a timed IP ban if there are two accounts from the same IP hitting the server-kick threshold within a given time.

Isn't enough imho - IP bans are easy to get around. As I will be in the Beta with my old PS vet account, I invite any dev to say okay then test the system, here are a few keys.