Battle Rifle for Heavy Assault

[Accuser]

Originally Posted by Erendil

Although I'd think a battle rifle might fit Light Assault more than Engie with their ability to get to high perches and such. And Engies already have turrets for long range work.

No... that's exactly why LA shouldn't have a long-range battle rifle.

I think it's fine for HA to have the option of taking the single-shot battle rifle. HA seems to have little utility with less health and firepower than a MAX, so giving them more options to spawn with seems fine.

Though since the Engi has good range with the turret, the LA can maneuver to the enemy easily, and now the HA has a long range battle rifle... it would be nice to see something similar for Medics, who'll likely be standing behind the HAs anyway!

[Dacrim]

sounds awesome! just the type of gun i like!

Originally Posted by Accuser

No... that's exactly why LA shouldn't have a long-range battle rifle.

I think it's fine for HA to have the option of taking the single-shot battle rifle. HA seems to have little utility with less health and firepower than a MAX, so giving them more options to spawn with seems fine.

Though since the Engi has good range with the turret, the LA can maneuver to the enemy easily, and now the HA has a long range battle rifle... it would be nice to see something similar for Medics, who'll likely be standing behind the HAs anyway!

i agree completely

[Sempars]

Yes I totally agree also. IF LA's get a battle rifle with 4 or 6 power scope, they will just jump to a high building and turn into snipers. Im pretty sure thats not what their role is suppose to be. I can See LA being like a StarShip Tropper that jumps around and does quick attacks and gets out. (book verson)

But on Topic I love that HA get will get some sort of Battle Rifle and not just a big weapon and Anti-vehicle weapon. Did anyone see that looks like you cant carry 2 primary weapons anymore? First time I seen this or heard of this.

[Rbstr]

I figure LA can get the 4 or 6 power scope for whatever they're using anyway when you consider that you can swap out scopes however you like. That doesn't mean they will be effective at those ranges.

I like the battle rifle as a cross-class weapon available for HA, Eng and Medic. Even LA and infiltrators might be able to use it. It depends on what kind of range and damage the gun really has and what LA/infils can do to their specific weapons.

I'd say that it's not actually a heavy assault weapon, it gives HA an option for longer range, besides the LMG, even though it might be "underpowered" compared to the other weapons the class has.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Sempars

Yes I totally agree also. IF LA's get a battle rifle with 4 or 6 power scope, they will just jump to a high building and turn into snipers. Im pretty sure thats not what their role is suppose to be. I can See LA being like a StarShip Tropper that jumps around and does quick attacks and gets out. (book verson)

I don't get it. To the 3 posters before Rbstr: Why would you not want to give a weapon to the LA class that plays to its strengths (mobility) while at the same time encouraging him to avoid engaging the enemy where he's weakest (up close)? I can assure you that a LA up on a perch with a scoped battle rifle is not going to become this invincible uber-sniper bagging enemies with impunity from amongst the hapless enemy soldiers below.

If he's out of assault rifle range he can still be out-sniped by enemy infils. If he has enough cover from ground forces that they can't countersnipe, you can send your own LA troops up to flush him out while providing suppressive fire to keep him pinned down.

And no matter how high he jets, or how secure his perch, he can still be mulched by enemy vehicles. Whether it's tank shells lobbed on top of him from 500m, ES Fighters swooping in from above, or Libs pummeling his perch from the flight ceiling, he will always be a much smaller fish.

And if need be you could always OS him.

And who's to say what role LA is "supposed" to have to begin with? An LA's role is whatever the player decides it will be. I don't mean to sound harsh, but trying to dictate ahead of time what role(s) a class should or should not have is IMO a recipe for stale and repetitive gameplay and will lead your side in the direction of getting stomped all over by enemy players who don't have such preconceived notions.

A battle rifle sounds to me like a good match for a LA trooper. I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to use one.

[NoDachi]

No. Light Assault and Battle Rifle are not congruent .

I hate to break your fantasies.

[Badjuju]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

Im not sure what your definition of quickscoping is. AFAIK its when there is near instant ADS and sometimes a bit of crosshair lock-on. Combined it allows for people to run around using long range weapons like shotguns.



The way I see it.. the HA is the premiere, workhorse trooper. Its not too strange that the class has a tool for most ranges. LA is the vanguard. MAX is the shock trooper. Infiltrator is scout/assassin/sniper. Engineer is support, repair and utility. Combat medic is the ..ehh the medic. I don't see how HA having long range diminishes any of the other classes roles. In fact as it stands, many people are questioning the HA's usefulness due to it being so similar to a MAX. Having a battlerifle allows it to distinguish itself further from the max..

If any other class should get it based on your criteria its the engineer (and infiltrator of course). A good medic is going to be upfront laying down aegis shields and reviving people when they can. However if the engineer gets one more thing I think the forums will explode.

This

[Sifer2]

Interesting as I had been suggesting they add such a weapon in other threads. Though I suggested also that only such low rate of fire weapons be able to get headshots. Just so the gameplay isn't so random an spammy like it was in the E3 build. Nice to know they already included something like it.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by NoDachi

No. Light Assault and Battle Rifle are not congruent .

I hate to break your fantasies.

Why? Do you have any specific reasoning beyond just "Durrrr because Light sounds weak and a Battle rifle is like, tough...?"

Light Assault <> Weak Assault.

This is how I see it. Light infantry (which in my mind are synonymous w/ LA troops) are often used by armed forces as forward detachments to scout ahead, probe enemy lines, start light skirmishes and cause chaos and confusion behind enemy lines and amongst enemy ranks. They are also used at the flanks and perimeters of FOBs because their high mobility gives them the flexibility to spread out and get into position quickly, as well as fall back quickly should they encounter a heavy enemy presence.

And when the shit hits the fan they *do* participate in large battles, but generally at the periphery just beyond the main point of contact, providing hit and run tactics, covering fire, and other types of distraction to keep the enemy off-guard and, well, distracted so the Heavy Infantry can move forward unharassed towards their objective.

But the vast majority of the above tactics will want to be done either with great stealth so they're not seen (which n PS2 is covered by the infil), great speed since they don't have the staying power of HA troops and so they can get in and out before the enemy can react, or from a great distance since they lack the armour and up-close firepower that HA troops possess, which in PS2 would be HA weapons, AV, and LMGs.

They can already get the great speed with their jumpjets. Their flashbangs and smoke give them some nice distraction ability. And a battle rifle would give them the accurate, long-distance harassing and covering ability that they need without turning them into snipers with jumpjets and without handing them LMGs for suppression.

[Malorn]

The fire modes still list it as "automatic, automatic", though either the tooltip or the fire mode text could be wrong.

The TR HA had a similar more long-range LMG that I saw in the videos who's tooltip mentioned it being the most accurate sustained fire LMG for long ranges. Not a battle rifle, but a LMG designed for more long range. The one listed above could be the VS equivalent, which may have an optional semi-auto mode as part of the faction differences, while the TR one might not but have better sustained firing accuracy at long range. Giving the VS a semi-auto one makes sense if the empire trait is accuracy.

I would expect the TR infiltrator's sniper rifle (semi-auto) with a red dot sight would be a pretty good battle rifle.

[Knightwyvern]

Originally Posted by Malorn

The fire modes still list it as "automatic, automatic", though either the tooltip or the fire mode text could be wrong.

The TR HA had a similar more long-range LMG that I saw in the videos who's tooltip mentioned it being the most accurate sustained fire LMG for long ranges. Not a battle rifle, but a LMG designed for more long range. The one listed above could be the VS equivalent, which may have an optional semi-auto mode as part of the faction differences, while the TR one might not but have better sustained firing accuracy at long range. Giving the VS a semi-auto one makes sense if the empire trait is accuracy.

I would expect the TR infiltrator's sniper rifle (semi-auto) with a red dot sight would be a pretty good battle rifle.

I know it's a bit knitpicky but honestly, the idea of a long barreled weapon being short range kind of drives me crazy. LMG should all be on the high end of the range spectrum, with the recoil being the stumbling block over which HA should tread. Obviously, a long range, high RoF weapon would also be pretty nasty at medium and close ranges as well. Add onto that the (presumably) extreme close range effectiveness of HA weapons such as the MCG, and the AV power of rockets/missiles, and the HA class could be a bit of a monster.

It's not uncommon practice to stick a 3.4x optic on an LMG and use it for mid-long range suppression; LMG being short range seems a bit too "gamey" to me.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Malorn

The fire modes still list it as "automatic, automatic", though either the tooltip or the fire mode text could be wrong.

The TR HA had a similar more long-range LMG that I saw in the videos who's tooltip mentioned it being the most accurate sustained fire LMG for long ranges. Not a battle rifle, but a LMG designed for more long range. The one listed above could be the VS equivalent, which may have an optional semi-auto mode as part of the faction differences, while the TR one might not but have better sustained firing accuracy at long range. Giving the VS a semi-auto one makes sense if the empire trait is accuracy.

I would expect the TR infiltrator's sniper rifle (semi-auto) with a red dot sight would be a pretty good battle rifle.

All good points. Selective fire on the VS LMG would fit their "versatility" theme too if they're the only empire that has it.

[OutlawDr]

Originally Posted by Sempars

Did anyone see that looks like you cant carry 2 primary weapons anymore? First time I seen this or heard of this.

The MAX is the only class that can technically take two Primary Weapons. However the HA's "tool" option is actually either the anti-AV weapon or the traditional Heavy Assault weapon. So basically it does have 2 primary weapons.

[maddoggg]

Nice find.
I really love combat rifles in most games .
Many people think HA will be weak or useless,but i feel like it's going to be the more versetale class and probably my favorite one .

[Vorgan]

Originally Posted by Erendil

Why? Do you have any specific reasoning beyond just "Durrrr because Light sounds weak and a Battle rifle is like, tough...?"

Light Assault <> Weak Assault.

This is how I see it. Light infantry (which in my mind are synonymous w/ LA troops) are often used by armed forces as forward detachments to scout ahead, probe enemy lines, start light skirmishes and cause chaos and confusion behind enemy lines and amongst enemy ranks. They are also used at the flanks and perimeters of FOBs because their high mobility gives them the flexibility to spread out and get into position quickly, as well as fall back quickly should they encounter a heavy enemy presence.

And when the shit hits the fan they *do* participate in large battles, but generally at the periphery just beyond the main point of contact, providing hit and run tactics, covering fire, and other types of distraction to keep the enemy off-guard and, well, distracted so the Heavy Infantry can move forward unharassed towards their objective.

But the vast majority of the above tactics will want to be done either with great stealth so they're not seen (which n PS2 is covered by the infil), great speed since they don't have the staying power of HA troops and so they can get in and out before the enemy can react, or from a great distance since they lack the armour and up-close firepower that HA troops possess, which in PS2 would be HA weapons, AV, and LMGs.

They can already get the great speed with their jumpjets. Their flashbangs and smoke give them some nice distraction ability. And a battle rifle would give them the accurate, long-distance harassing and covering ability that they need without turning them into snipers with jumpjets and without handing them LMGs for suppression.

I totally disagreed with the notion of LA having access to BRs until I read this post; you make some excellent points. Access to a Battle Rifle would certainly give LA the ability to scout and harass heavier enemy infantry from afar before retreating to the safety behind friendly lines. They'd still be ripped to shreds by lashers, MCGs, and JHs, likewise with Engineers' shotguns. At range, they could be outdone by infiltrators sniping, and they'd have the same range as HA with a BR...Pretty hard counters.

Hardly sounds like it'd make LA OP, but it would certainly grant them more flexible and keep that class within reason (so long as they don't get ammo back).

Regardless of LA getting access to BRs, I'm thrilled that they're in the game for HA. Very nicely fleshes out the classes and will hopefully get people to stop asking them to change the JH from a shotgun into a railgun...