Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?

[Zekeen]

For those of you who have seen the E3 demo, you have seen that currently there is a quick knife in the game, frequently ending up used instead of hacking. Now, most likely quick knifing isn't an insta kill, but a damaging attack. Never the less, is a quick knife a very good thing to have? The very nature of a quick-knife, is a feeling of a rushed game with overly unnatural character reaction. It seems like a teleporting knife with such a fast swing with a weapon that was not in the hand before. Really, what it looks like, is the weapon transforming into the knife and back. It feels unnatural.

As you can see, what I'm more concerned on, is not the quick-melee, but the quick-KNIFE.

Nitpicky? A bit, but I think my problems are a bit grounded. Quick-Knife is nothing but a terrible copy-cat of modern games. Come on devs, you don't have to be original, but don't do THIS! There should be a lot more out there that can make it fit in more.

The solution:

Rather than a quick knife, how about a rifle-bash? It works much more fluidly, the weapon doesn't leave the screen, you can get the attack in the same time frame, but it doesn't have to go as far, so it looks less rushed.

Not only does it take care of the quick-melee, but it allows the knife to be used in much more damaging and stealthy roles - equipped like a main weapon. Sure, it might be doing it like PS1, but it makes the knife a much hardier weapon, and then there's the case of the knife-alt fire, to increase damage.

Finally, if you devs want to see a knife in quick-melee, JUST USE A BAYONET! Effective, brutal, AND logical. Just make it a mod.

Well that's my two cents on this minor issue.

What do you guys think?

[Sabot]

I'm a firm believer that if you have to use a knife, you've done something very wrong to begin with... However, the optin of a melee attack must be there. So I'm going with equip a knife if that's what you want to use. And I'm not totally against an insta kill knife attack from behind or something like that... but only if you have to equip it before using it.... ook maybe not insta kill but a large amount of damge to you HP... i.e the knife ignore shields on infantry or if there's no shields, it can be explained by finding weak spots in the armor. But then only on infantry.. not on MAXes.

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Sabot

I'm a firm believer that if you have to use a knife, you've done something very wrong to begin with... However, the optin of a melee attack must be there. So I'm going with equip a knife if that's what you want to use. And I'm not totally against an insta kill knife attack from behind or something like that... but only if you have to equip it before using it.... ook maybe not insta kill but a large amount of damge to you HP... i.e the knife ignore shields on infantry or something like that.

Don't forget, in PS1, there was the alt fire of a knife that would shoot the damage up a lot, by turning on it's power supply to make a very loud racket, maybe add in some visual change too for PS2.

[Sabot]

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Don't forget, in PS1, there was the alt fire of a knife that would shoot the damage up a lot, by turning on it's power supply to make a very loud racket, maybe add in some visual change too for PS2.

Absolutely... that would be even better imo. Maybe we don't even need the alt fire option on it at all.. I mean, there was little to no point in trying to knife someone down without using the alt fire in PS1. Of course it's a nice option to have if you're a cloaker... meh, simply go PS1 style tbh. That would be the best imho.

[Zekeen]

I still say, if we DO take out quick-melee, let it be MODDED in. Having to attach a bayonet, you DESERVE to stab people! That would make it much more balanced.

But it also looks so retarded right now, people just start swinging, trying to hit the right key to hack or use a terminal.... just terrible.

[Death2All]

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Death2All

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

~

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Death2All

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

It's not all bad, but people really do try to make it a necessity in everything, which is messed up. I think it fits fine for a stealth kill, but nothing quick-melee for that sort of deal. As I said, it'd be fine if you had to mod it in, it's an alternative combat technique, and would be MUCH more enjoyable if melee specialists had to attach a piece for that sort of deal.

[Phellix]

Originally Posted by Death2All

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

Agreed, Only time you should use melee(IMO) is when you're, 1) Completely out of ammo, 2) You've unloaded your magazine and your pistols magazine, or 3) for messing around with your own faction or having some fun with an enemy 1v1. Or a cloaker obviously but FPS's have catered too much to melee attacks within the last couple of years and made it very annoying.

Although, I don't think the modern day quick knife would do anything extreme at the kind of scale planetside brings unless cloakers could abuse it, so whatever.

[Bags]

I;'ve gotten more kills on people trying to melee in BF3 than I've died to it, so let the idiots have their quick knife.

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Bags

I;'ve gotten more kills on people trying to melee in BF3 than I've died to it, so let the idiots have their quick knife.

Yeah.. but quick-knife LOOKS TERRIBLE. It's an awful mechanic for a game as detailed and beautiful as PS2. It feels VERY out of place. Anything would be better.

[Alanim]

Originally Posted by Death2All

Why are people so adamant on incorporating melee into shooter games? Sometimes I feel alone with my hatred for melee.

Melee is added for those very awkward moments when either one player is out of ammo in both guns or BOTH players are out of ammo, when that happens if you don't have melee the best you can do is look at each other and walk away, melee prevents that.

Oh, and for when both players are reloading aswell.

[therandomone]

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.

[Memeotis]

There was a similar discussion on the dust beta forums, where I personally argued for the quick knife, since having to equip the knife would be a terrible mechanic for when playing with a controller. Then someone came up with the suggestion that quick-knife should remain, but holding down the knife button would equip the knife (BF3-style), and when the knife has been equipped the time in between swipes would be lower.

I thought this was a great idea.

[WNxThentar]

I'm not a fan of a quick knife. If you want a knife kill then put away your weapon and pull out your knife. I wouldn't be against some rifle melee but on the provision that there is a delay after before shooting again or just a wildly large cone of fire and shouldn't be as damaging as a bullet. In theory you should be able to pistol whip someone but....

All this said and done I don't think knives are not going to be as important unless you are just out of ammo. With positional damage a head shot from 2 feet away should be devastating enough.

I guess the only thing I can think of is for infiltrators getting some kind of silent kill.