Lightning

MilitantB0B · 2003-06-24, 08:57 PM

I recently picked up the lighting cert as a means of getting myself around while still having firepower. I have to say, I am a bit disapointed. In my opinion, any thing that costs 3 cert points should be just as usefull as all the other things that cost 3 points. As I see it, most other things do a good job of this, but the lightning seems to fall short. Lets look at in comparison to the main battle tanks as they are similar in many ways:

Similaritys:
The both can only be driven by Agile or lower
They both are pretty much the only harbringers of ground vehicular firepower (the buggys do to a lesser extent, but are mainly just an armed transport for reinforced people)

Pros of the Lightning:
No need of a gunner
Goes a small amount faster
Can be dropped out of galaxys

Cons of lightning:
bad armor
lower firepower
almost no turret rotation

It seems to me that the firepower and low turret rotation is fine. The armor needs a boost I think. In my opinion, the lighting should be a ground based reaver, not a ground based mosquito. has anybody else noticed this?
I really would like the lightning to be good because I like the whole tank thing, but hate not getting to gun, whats the fun of being the driver, the fun is in making things go boom.

WritheNC · 2003-06-24, 09:23 PM

Yup. I played a lightning all through beta. It has less armor than a harasser(or about the same; its close), yet it is still considered a tank. I guess that's because it moves on treads. I still like the lightning, I just don't use it anymore =\

Civilian · 2003-06-24, 09:54 PM

Oddly enough, I decided to pick up a Lightning cert myself(but only until I get one more BR so I can get Combat Engi), and I've enjoyed it. I had it for about 1 day during beta and the armor was so weak, it just wasn't worth having. But as Engi, I seem to be picking up plenty of kills and I have hte ability to drive off quickly, repair and the head back to the battle.

I do get irritated when a Re-inforced infi runs behind a tree, and the splash damage for the cannon is so weak I can't kill him.

SumYungGui · 2003-06-24, 09:55 PM

the lightning? AAAAHAHAHAHA

ya know that one cert point you have left over at the end of your career? use that for a reaver. more damage, faster movement, more survivability, aerial movement through all three axis, ability to circumvent turret's lack of mobility, and the REAL killer: an airborne vehicle has more armor deflection (I think, can't exactly decode planetside and look) and more hitpoints (this one I know for certain) than a ground vehicle. plus it's a one man vehicle as well.

Vick · 2003-06-24, 10:18 PM

Ok, it is tricky, it took me a long while to get a working technique to kill people with the baby Vanguard, but now I am up to killing 20 people per Lightning.

1. You have no armor, if HA weapons with AP and AV weapons will tear you into pieces. Even small arms will tear you up if you are not careful. So if you are getting shot at, and dont have a good reason, your doing something wrong.

Ok, so you have no armor, but nice firepower, so what do you do? Be stealthy. I get /tells from people saying they didnt even see what killed them. You can be right next to some and they dont even notice you.

2. Flank the enemy, get behind them, or to the side, follow them along untill you get right next to them, then 2-3 shells and they are dead.

There are 2 times when you should ditch the little tank, when there are tons of reavers around, or when the battle is so large people keep spotting you.

3. So, the ideal situation is any battle up to a medium-largish one. Although even in the largest ones you can work the outskirts and kill snipers/AV rocketers.

4. Always watch for mines. Mines are bad, bad mines, bad.

5. Always keep yourself fully repaired, when AV things start to hit you, take cover and repair.

Ok, lets do a little roleplaying. Say you have a tower, and you have a steady stream of dirty nasty Terrans pooring out of it heading to your poor NC base. So you in your lightning go out to the side of the tower, and start zig-zaging between the tower and the base so you always cacth TR from the side. Your first terran comes along, about halfway to the base, you should drive up next to and a bit behind him, and blast him to pieces, take careful aim first though.

Ok, so you have been doing this, and then a big scary TR DC MAX comes looking for you, these are your arch-enemy as a Lightning driver. Against opponents like this (including the striker and lancer, but those are a bit easier to deal with) STAND YOUR GROUND, keep firing, pound him into the ground. It will be close, but I have never been killed in a battle between DC and Lightning, which happens plenty. And I love every MAX kill I get.

Ok, quick tips time:

What do you do whena Vanu max jumps? Quickly switch to the chaingun and shoot him while he is in the air, then switch back.

How do you kill someone when a slope is keeping the cannon off them? Chaingun them!

What do you do when a air vehicle attacks you? If it is a reaver, take cover, try to run it into trees (Trees have killed 2 reavers for me), and chaingun them!

Ok, now you may be asking " VICK WHATABOUT VEHICLES, IT IS TANK, NOT A INFANTRY KILLING THINGY!!!!!". Well, that is true, you can kill Basilisks and Wraiths in like 2 or 3 shots. Harrasers and Skyguards go real quick too.

You can kill a Magrider (maybe) if they have no gunner, although it can be close. You can take on any tank if they are distracted (if your lucky), which is how I got all but 2 (out of only 9) of my Magrider kills. They always seem to focus on non-tiny vehicles. AMSes take a full clip of shells to kill (if you dont get blown to pieces by AV first), maybe a little more. I stay away from Sunderers (double your firepower and 10 times the armor), I have bad luck with them.

So, if you use it to charge into battle blasting you die, very quickly. If you use it to do laps around the perimeter of bases, hunt snipers and rocketeers, kill people running around the road, and in general cruise around hte countryside, you get l33t kills and can be like Vick.

MilitantB0B · 2003-06-24, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by SumYungGui
the lightning? AAAAHAHAHAHA

ya know that one cert point you have left over at the end of your career? use that for a reaver. more damage, faster movement, more survivability, aerial movement through all three axis, ability to circumvent turret's lack of mobility, and the REAL killer: an airborne vehicle has more armor deflection (I think, can't exactly decode planetside and look) and more hitpoints (this one I know for certain) than a ground vehicle. plus it's a one man vehicle as well.

Ummmmm, did you pay attention to my post? You can't just say, "Reavers are better, ditch the lightning!" Cause the lightning should be a viable cert choice as well. As it stands, it is not worth the effort, I agree with you, but thats why they should make it worth effort.
Vick, I know from personal experience you are quite good with the lightning, the only problem is that you turn it into a killing machine, despite its huge gaping flaws. It needs a boost, and you just reinforced that opinion.

JakeLogan · 2003-06-24, 10:56 PM

I drove the lightning too in beta. I thought it was a great little tank. Great for hit and run tactics and great for spotting enemy movements. I took out infantry and a couple vehicles. (one including a reaver I shot down out of pure luck) well while great for hit and run tactics this tank could use a little boost in armor. so it can at least go suppersor to jackhammer with a tank.

MilitantB0B · 2003-06-24, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by JakeLogan
I drove the lightning too in beta. I thought it was a great little tank. Great for hit and run tactics and great for spotting enemy movements. I took out infantry and a couple vehicles. (one including a reaver I shot down out of pure luck) well while great for hit and run tactics this tank could use a little boost in armor. so it can at least go suppersor to jackhammer with a tank.

I liked the little thing in beta as well because in beta the fights are smaller. In small fights it rocks, but in large fights, it goes down faster then.... then... well, PSU I guess.

BUGGER · 2003-06-24, 11:09 PM

It is weak, i used it once and did ok, but its armor just sucks penis. I mean you could get you empir tank for the same amount of certs, jsut u cant gun it (besides the fagrider). The tank is dissapointing and should be brought down a cert.

MilitantB0B · 2003-06-24, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by BUGGER33
It is weak, i used it once and did ok, but its armor just sucks penis. I mean you could get you empir tank for the same amount of certs, jsut u cant gun it (besides the fagrider). The tank is dissapointing and should be brought down a cert.

I really think that the best course of action would be to up the armor. It is in that weird realm where 2 points is too cheap and 3 points is too expencive. I think they should just up the armor. (I think I have a new personal crusade on my hands.) I love piloting that thing, until some infantry man takes me out with ease.

Vick · 2003-06-25, 12:56 AM

I agree it is one of the worst vehicles in the game, so is the minichaingun. But if you now what your doing either of them can be really effective. I just got hooked on it and used it everyday untill I firgured out what to do with it. I tried artillery (wow, 400 grief!), infantry support (grief, to much AV), driving really fast through a battle firing running people over (dont even try that one...), and finally trying to hide and running away to repair often.

Yesterday afternoon I go to Cyssor, it was all red, I saw a hotspot, so I went there solo, we hacked the base. Then everyone leaves, I go afk for a second and when I come back I see 1 guy running up the path to the base. I go into the woods and come out behind him, boom boom boom. I send a tell thanking him for giving me BR15. He says "damn lightning are like cougars". I dont know what the fuck he meant, but I took it as I am very stealthy and l33t. But then I turn towards the path again, and see a skyguard, a harraser, and 3 infantry running up it. I took out the harraser first, then the skyguard, then the 3 infantry as they ran into the woods.

Now obviously this was the worst squad ever, I took exactly 0 damage and got 6 kills. But even then, you can see that it can atleast kill a few people, if they are complete shit. I dont think that really helped my Lighting is overpowered campaign, but I have similar experiances a couple times a day, earlier I killed 7 people, their AMS, then repeat killed another 3.

Ohh well, I guess that was just an excuse to brag, but I swear it did happen in a Lightning, I didnt drive there in it and jump out and jackhammer them.

Crono · 2003-06-25, 02:04 AM

I just dropped Medical to get a Lightning. I don't really like it, but at least I can get places now. Besides, I was able to own a Deliverer with it.

SumYungGui · 2003-06-25, 04:08 AM

yes, it has guns. yes, it can kill stuff. it still blows.

hit and run tactics? not fuggin likely. with your turret fixed forward so strictly anything that you hit while running will be right in front of you. RIGHT in front of you. since you're 'running' while you're 'hitting', you're closing the distance between your target and yourself in a near-perfectly straight line the entire time you engage that particurlar target. that is not hit and run...that's begging for a decimator in the face and a quick, spectacularly exothermic death. your only other choice is to line up your target and sit nigh-upon perfectly still while you try to shell your target from a distance. that too is not hit and run and is also begging for a quick death. only this time it's most likely not going to be a decimator. it'll most likely be an AV weapon. what stunning choices you have.

yes, it has guns. yes, it can kill stuff. I know you can kill stuff, I forced myself to use it exclusively for five days during beta to assure myself that the thing really IS as worthless as my first impressions led me to believe. ya know what? it really is as worthless as my first impressions led me to believe.

my honest opinion is that it should have turret manueverability a-la battle field 1942 tanks. give the lightnings that ability and I'll gladly admit that it is good for hit and run.

WritheNC · 2003-06-25, 05:07 AM

Man, now I have to make another character so I can drive around a lightning again...sheesh.

The reason they're so good at being stealthy is because they are low to the ground, and thus have a very very low profile for a vehicle. You can surprise a lot of people with a lightning.

I agree with the "its not quite 3 points, but its worth more than 2 points" statement. I think upping the armor a little bit would help greatly, as well as having it ignored by automated turrets so you can scout around in a one man vehicle instead of the Harasser for a change.

12tontuna · 2003-06-25, 06:20 AM

I haven't been snuck up on by lightnings yet, but let me tell you, those stealthy Prowlers get my goat!

I almost never see those things, til I'm examining the tread marks over my skull.

I think they base the point cost on the weapon loadout of the vehicle. All of the 75, 100 and 150mm pieces are 3 points.

Gay, yet true.

I wouldn't give the lightning more armor. It IS called a "Lightning". Lets make it move faster, and turn more quickly. It isn't supposed to head to head main battle tanks.