Problem: Game Objective too Obvious

1024 · 2003-07-14, 03:41 PM

I was thinking about the technicalities of PS recently. It seems that this game is set up for great commanding and campaigns and such, except for the fact that the main thing you do is just attack a base along with the Zerg. There needs to be soemthing changed so that commanding is actually needed. So far, its just follow the zerg.

This also brings up another problem i've been thinking about lately. The fact that poeple say, "Oh, i got BR 20, time to work on CR's" scares me. People should try to command because they think they can command, not just becasue they have already got BR20 and want to max out there levels. There needs to be something changed where the commanders who can actually command get more exp than the guys who just say, "go here".

I have no ideas so far on how to solve these problems, and have been trying to come up with some, but i thought you guys may have some thoughts.

soslo · 2003-07-14, 04:13 PM

Good thoughts. I have a question (noob) - what is zerg? aside from StarCraft.

Hexen · 2003-07-14, 04:18 PM

I dunno if there is any way to fix this.

I thought of one thing, but it started to sound alot like the WW2OL resource system except that you physically see equipment moved to bases in convoys, and have to escort them.. as a mission. In a way, NTUs already serve as the PlanetSide "resource system", though NTUs are in infinite abundance and they rarely seem to run out at bases anyway.

In terms of adding other objectives to PS, I dunno how you'd do it.

And as far as I know, commanding is already needed. It's just that if you follow the zerg, you don't need commanding because you'll crush the enemy anyway. I reckon a good commander keeping close contact with his squad should be able to fight off dangerous odds against the zerglings.

Edit: I dunno whether the term "zerg" reinvented itself in PlanetSide or not. In DAOC, it was a term used for a massive force of enemies that in collective force were so powerful that no command was necessary or even capable of controlling them. Or at least, thats what it seemed to mean when used. Since back in SC alot of zerg players would just amass sh*tloads of units and send them all at the enemy without any thought for micro management of the force, and they'd often win, it makes sense to use it as we do in MMOGs when a crapload of players band together causing the same sort of effect.

MercFox1 · 2003-07-14, 04:55 PM

ooohhhh Zerg.....must....frag....Kerrigan.....

Happy lil Elf · 2003-07-14, 05:17 PM

Zerg comes from Starcraft you are correct. The whole make a bunch of zerglings and "zerg" the enemy tactic gave many people problems in multiplayer.

However it has been adapted to many games. In DAoC it generally refers to a huge group from an opposing realm hopping around slaughtering everything they find through pure numbers rather than tactics or skill. In EQ it's used to describe defeating an encounter by swarming it under with sheer brute force instead of using tactics and skill. In PS it's used to refer to the large mass of players that always pops up and simply goes from base to base as a mindless mob killing/capping everything they can.

MercFox1 · 2003-07-14, 05:21 PM

Not that we argue with brute force, since tactics sometimes beat brute force, like placing mines in the road after a scout reports that the entire army is coming this way. Then you stick up spitfires and have a CR5 waiting to OS the entire force. But a "smart" army is a thing to be truely feared; an army that sends inf's out in front to look for spitfires and mines, then throws jammers and points a sniper in the CR5's direction.

CrazyCrazy · 2003-07-14, 05:27 PM

Yes I've thought about this too. It seems once you max out your levels the game will be less fun since the current system relies too heavily on the zerg. Sicne you won't need to worry about XP when you're levels are maxed, you can go to an empty cont controlled by an enemy and take it over, but what fun and to what advantage is that? (esp. when you have to wait 15mins per base hack). Sure its nice to see a lot blue on the global map if your NC, but since yo know its only temporary, do you really want to spend 3 hours capping a cont wihout fighting an enemies? I have a few ideas.

First off, you should be able to LOSE Command Rank. I'm not sure how exactly to implement this, but when a hack fails because no one got an ant is one obvious choice for losing CR points. Another could just be losing a base that you and at least 2 other squad memebrs are in. If it gets hacked within 5 mins of you being there, and the hack goes thru, you lose a certain amount of CR.

You have to realize that under the current system everyone will have CR5 soon. I saw some guy on Konried ask on global "anyone wanna cyber?" I doubt he was being serious, but you can see where global and continent all chat is headed. Mostly I think CR5s should use all and global chat to give info and get info. Right now, the only person I've seen command using these CR5 features successfully is Luci on Konried. This is moslty due the fact htat he also has a lot of kills, so people respect him more. Most CR5's can just get their CR by leading a 2 man squad and riding a zerg. It's not that hard to get, and doesn't really reflect the true leadership abilities of the player.

Anyways, I think this game definitely needs more tactical compnents added to it, and not just more weapons and vehicles. One thing they could try is to limit continental pop lock based on how many players of another empire are there. It could start low, say 20, but then the lock size could increase per enemy on that continent. For example, you are NC and go to ceryshen with a squad, and there are no enemies there. Another frinedly squad joins and it immediately shows as "pop. locked" on the map. When a few TR notice there red bases dissapearing, they send a squad in. the pop lock limit for TR at this point would be 20, the same as NC. But if both TR and NC have 20, then pop lock size doubles for each( TR has a pop lock of 40, and NC pop lock of 40 as well). If VS decides to join in while this is going on, they're lock is also matched at 40. When two out of the hteree empires on the cont reach their current pop lock limit, the limit for all three is increased to an equal amount. So if NC and TR both reach there 40 memebr limit, all three empire's will have htere pop lock limit extended to 60, including VS, even if they only have 10 players on. because players drop due to LD or just quit, here could be a timer on, so if two empires COMBINED make up less than 20 of another empire's population, the pop lock size decreases, and some people get booted to sanc.

This isn't the perfect solution, but just an idea to make the game more interesting and less baout zerging.

1024 · 2003-07-14, 05:42 PM

I got an idea...stress the importance of ANTs even MORE. Make it so whenever theres an ANT wihtin say a 3km diameter of your position, you can see a little icon on the map. Red for nme, green for friendly. I doubt even many peopel will go after the nme ANTs, but it will happen. Thoughts?

EDIT: The problem with trying to get peopel to find ANTs and kill them before they reach the base, is that no one sees them. Its not like you got a guy on a hill looking around for an ANT. Most of the time everyone is fighting or going to the fight. People barely get a sniper and get him on hill to watch for nme ANTs.

MercFox1 · 2003-07-14, 05:50 PM

ANT locators would be nice, since you would have to protect them and not just send some dude out to get one at you leisure. And you would know where to go to get an nme AMS.

shinken · 2003-07-14, 06:35 PM

it should take a small convoy (read 3-4) of ANTs to fill a base and 1 0r 2 for a tower, also the ant finder thing would let you seige the base and keep the ANTs out

1024 · 2003-07-14, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by shinken
it should take a small convoy (read 3-4) of ANTs to fill a base and 1 0r 2 for a tower

Don't increase the amount ofANTs needed, its hard enough getting together one.

Hexen · 2003-07-14, 06:47 PM

I dunno about just an innate ability to see all incoming ANTs, thats a bit weak. Maybe implement a small scanner tower that can be deployed by engineers that detects concentrations of NTU, thus displaying nearby ANTs.

SweetTater · 2003-07-14, 06:50 PM

Killing ANTs are pretty fun, especially since full ones make a huge explosion. If you can take out an ANT, it can totally turn the tide of a battle. I went on an ANT run because we were rehacking a drained base we were defending. Took the back roads, outran some grunts, and finally got my full ANT into the base. Got out of the ANT and deployed it just as I heard a screeching noise. Took off running and still died as a full load of liberator bombs landed on the ANT. Since my ANT died, we lost the hack and eventually the base.

Funniest bit of ANT hunting I did was in an AMS. I was trying to find a good place to deploy when I saw an ANT sneaking in along the coast. I took off after it and started ramming it. I tried pulling one of those moves you see the police do on COPS that spin out the car but had no success. Then I tried shoving it into the water but missed. Darn AMS handles like a fat pig at high speeds. I ended up chasing the ANT into the base. He parked it in the corner next to the silo and jumped out. I rammed the ANT into the corner hoping to blow it up but just damaged it a lot. The driver couldn't get to the back of the ANT to deploy quick enough before a Lancer got it and blew it, the driver, and most of my AMS up.

gonnagetyou · 2003-07-14, 07:02 PM

I don't like the idea of being able to see enemy ANTs. Most of the time stealth is the only thing they have going for them.

I do like the idea of being able to see friendly ANT positions however. Too often I've raced out to get an ANT filled and back to the base, only to find 2 or 3 others doing the same thing. If you were able to see their position and their name, then you'd be able to coordinate who goes where and cancel an ANT run if there's already plenty doing so.

Streamline · 2003-07-14, 07:14 PM

All i can say is, it is easier to lead br20 in a squad since no one is concerned with XP. This creates alot of open territory. Still reluctant to suggest this. But, what if say 65% of the peeps that played were all br20s and XP is means nothing other than outfit points? Could we posibly see less high ranked players involved in zerg activities? I hope so...