TR - Get that armor out. Now.

Starstorm · 2003-11-13, 06:48 PM

Seriously. What's with TR and they're lack of armor. I see Vanguards, Magriders, purple and blue lightnings, Skyguards and Threshers/Enforcers, but hardly EVER see a black and red Lightning or Prowler out there. Eh? Everything is Reavers and soft troops now.

First off, Prowler is, and always was, underrated. Yeah, it's big and slow. And? The Vanguard isn't exactly super swift itself. The Magrider is, but, it's Vanu, what can you expect. Also, the 100mm is HUGELY underrated. At almost the same refire rate as the Sweeper Shotgun, it does about three times as damage as that a shot. 2 direct hits on infantry, 3 if the shots are a little off.

Also, the 100mm is perfect on other ground vehicles, turrets and other deployables, hell, even air in some occasions. I've racked up a lot of kills gunning that thing. Plus, the extra 12mm, I must admit, sucks, but still, the other tanks don't have it.

Other than the Prowler, still. I don't see any ground vehicles except AMS's and the such. Cmon guys. Armor is a lot more important than you all think. Most troops are on ground, so you are one big, heavily armored, heavily firepowered, thing on the ground.

Incompetent · 2003-11-13, 07:11 PM

I have two words for you

Lightning = win

It does some odd that the TR fields the least armor though, i would have thought most everyone would be happy to have a little armored shell where the Jackwhores can't touch you.

Edit: if i had to guess though, i'd say maybe 3 out of 4 active members of my outfit have either a Lightning or a Prowler.

Jagd · 2003-11-13, 07:24 PM

There is the odd TR Armor Division out there, but as has been discussed to death on many threads since the launch of the damn game, Prowlers are fodder to other tanks. There are lots of reasons for this, but the main thing is that when you have an armored squad you can only have 3 Prowler crews, whereas the NC or Vanu can field 5 fully manned tanks. 5 tanks will defeat 3 tanks any day of the week. Sure you can toss in a lightning and try and even it up a little but a couple Vanguard shells is all it takes to blow it out of the picture.

The other major reason that I'm aware of is that while technically the Prowler can throw down as much damage over time as a Vanguard, scoring a direct hit from a moving tank is quite difficult so if it takes more shots to wipe out a target (and Vans have soooo much more armor in the first place) you are just going to miss with more shots anyways. When gunning a Vanguard all you need is a little communication for the driver to stop, gunner fires, start moving again, repeat. Direct hits are what tank warfare is all about, and the Vanguard is able to pack way more punch with every hit, while exposing itself the least amount of times to get the kill.

If you are interested in playing with some hardcore tankers, create a TR on Markov and find TheRedX in the SkyRaiders outfit. He has weekly practices and armor drills and from what I hear they are starting to land more and more decisive victories for us (I fly with the air wing on Markov).

I Hate Pants · 2003-11-13, 08:05 PM

agreed/

The TR on Emerald are the worst at this. Yes! Lets rush the NC Vanguards with fresh grunts! I find myself the only one with a marauder driving around killing jackwhores. I see little to none maruaders and prowlers! Yet the NC do a good job of feilding a good number of Vanguards.

But I see too many mosquitos and reavers! Come on TR we need more drivers and less pilots!!!!!!!!!!

I Hate Pants · 2003-11-13, 09:51 PM

Also adding to what I said earlier. What use do you guys expect the Loadstar to be when all the people who are pilots are flying these things. But they have no tanks to lift because we have limited drivers?

Alright you guys so you don't get to shoot people. Big deal, why is it such a sacrifice? You can still run over troops and maxes. I do it all the time and I find it much more satisfying.

Rayder · 2003-11-14, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jagd

(and Vans have soooo much more armor in the first place)

The Prowler has the most armor followed by the Van and then the Mag. The Prowler has the most damage over time whereas the Vanguard has the most damager per shot. 3 people are needed to fully crew a Prowler, whereas only 2 are needed for the Vanguard and Magrider, remember however that all it takes is 2 people to drive and use the Prowler's main cannon.

Acaila · 2003-11-14, 12:17 AM

No, Vans have the most armour, then Prowlers, then Mags. Prowler has the most damage over time even without the elusive third gunner. The TTK between a Prowler and a Van (on eachother) is roughly the same. Both are 1 shot kill on infantry with a direct hit.

On Markov we get some good MBT battles going, seems like all empires use them quite a bit.

Veteran · 2003-11-14, 12:21 AM

This is my (partisan) take on TR armor. Take it with a grain of salt.

1: The Prowler's weak main gun is a problem. By the time you walk your shots onto the sniper-tank, it has killed you, assuming it's not killing you from 300m, which it is certainly capable of doing. Its best match-up is the Vanguard, which also has the drawback of arc-fire artillery. Also, people don't feel comfortable gunning in a Prowler that lacks a chaingunner, and therefore are less likely to gun the 100mm. Vanguards are fully functional with two guys and it works well. MagRiders are highly lethal with no gunners. The Heavy Rail Beam is superb AI/AV/AA while the arc-fire guns are only solid AV and decent (but not exceptional) AI. I would make the Prowler's 12mm guns into 20mm guns and give them a Spitfire AI.

2: The Marauder: Junk. Enforcer has superb AV capabilities and Thresher can deliver the LLU in record time. The Maurauder sucks the same way the Pounder does: it's fine with infantry until armor shows itself, and then it's food for every Lancer, Phoenix, Decimator or Reaver on the field. Also, why bother putting a weak machine gun on a vehicle that has a primarily AI mortar launcher? It's just offering yet another kill to whoever blows the thing up while offering only slightly better protection to the vehicle. I would give this gun an AI as well and eliminate the third seat.

3: Lightning. I see a lot of TR Lightnings, so I can't comment.

Rayder · 2003-11-14, 12:48 AM

Hmm, I must have been looking at something else, but your right Vet, Van does have the most armor. The Magrider is not good at AI, sure its got that nice little almost straight line shooting turret but, it takes 3-4 direct hits to kill an agle or reinforced, whereas the others only need 1-2, and if you miss with the Rail then its gonna take more. Mag is good for distance only because it's got semi-accurate shot. It can hit big targets but not small ones. Of course, it's the best for AA because of that same fact.

Katanaboy · 2003-11-14, 01:05 AM

Very true. It is quite difficult to hit infantry with the HRB, due to the direct line of sight gun. With a shell weapon, you do not need direct accuracy since the shell will "fall" near the enemy anyway, dealing splash damage. With the HRB, any misses will continue flying past the enemy, parallel to the ground. Thus, the only way to do it is either to hit the opponent (which still takes 2 direct hits to down infantry), or aim at the ground (but its splash damage is pretty weak, taking 3-4 to kill infantry). This, coupled with the fact that when the mag goes over any sort of bumpy terrain, the gunner's view will jump up and down to match the terrain (this happens with the other tanks, but is much more of a concern with the direct fire of the HRB). So while the the HRB may seem to be easy to aim, it actually becomes more difficult than the other tanks when moving over rough terrain, which a mag MUST do due to its higher speed/lower armor.

/rant

Rayder · 2003-11-14, 02:36 AM

Actually the annoying bumps are more noticable in the Mag because of the fact that it doesnt stay on the ground but "jumps" into the air due to its hovering.

Veteran · 2003-11-14, 02:53 AM

I judge the MagRider by an experience I had once while driving a Skyguard at full speed over hilly terrain. A MagRider at top speed about 250m away was landing hit after hit, without missing once, on my Skyguard until it died. Two vehicles moving at top speed over hills and yet not a single miss. It may be because with no COF, the Heavy Rail Beam is an aimbot user's dream, or it may be because it's point-and-click death. One way or another, I judge MagRider to be the King of Tanks for now and always. I wish TR could get them by hacking Vanu vehicle terminals. I'd like to show the VS how it feels to be harassed by a tank that can make anyone into a one-man army, with or without a gunner.

TeraHertz · 2003-11-14, 04:55 AM

Other than the Prowler, still. I don't see any ground vehicles except AMS's and the such. Cmon guys. Armor is a lot more important than you all think. Most troops are on ground, so you are one big, heavily armored, heavily firepowered, thing on the ground.

Yeah, so you'd think. But since every fker carries 3 bloody triple shot decimators these days as well as their HA weapon and rexo I ditched my tank.
The only useful role for my tank was becoming long range artillery, and thats a Freindly Fire hazard waiting to lock your gun out, even WITH advanced targeting.

Reaver afterburner rocket strike (you dont see it comming, and air cover cant take it out) + decimator + mosquito sucide run = unforgiving place for ANY tank column apart from the more armoured NC vanguards.

btw Im not complaining about the vanguards, they're the only ground vehicle I really fear when on foot, thats the way it SHOULD be. Infantry shoudln't be engaging tanks like they do just now. I've seen fields of infantry CHARGING tank columns in heavy armour and winning. WTF is that all about. More armour for tanks, or less decimator users. For a start - why the hell is the deci spec ops?

I don't think the fact that the number of level 20 users is very high is reflected in the game properly. I'm sure it was all cool and balanced in the start, but now alot of peope seem to have each and every infantry cert.

Warborn · 2003-11-14, 08:53 AM

Prowler is nothing special, and in my opinion that's why it's rarely used. The Vanguard has a really powerful main cannon, with a secondary fire chaingun. Only takes one gunner, and that gunner gets two weapons, one of which is a ton of fun to fire, simply because of its power.

The MagRider on the other hand isn't as attractive for a secondary gunner, but it's good for MagMowing, so you see it a lot anyway. Even still, its fairly accurate main cannon makes it pretty useful and fun to use.

On the other hand, the Prowler gives each gunner one weapon, neither of which is terribly fun to use. Shooting a lot of semi-powerful shells around doesn't give you that feeling that shooting Vanguard shells does.

So, really, I think the lack of Prowlers is because they're just not fun. And maybe also because they look bad.

Warborn · 2003-11-14, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by TeraHertz

Infantry shoudln't be engaging tanks like they do just now. I've seen fields of infantry CHARGING tank columns in heavy armour and winning. WTF is that all about. More armour for tanks, or less decimator users. For a start - why the hell is the deci spec ops?

On an unrelated note, I agree. I personally would like it if tanks took about 33% damage from stuff like Decimators compared to now, and if vehicles couldn't instant-kill infantry by running them over. Tanks wouldn't be quite as lethal to infantry as they are now, but infantry would be much more reliant on friendly vehicles to take out tanks, whereas tanks would be primarily concerned with eliminating enemy vehicles first and foremost, as they would pose the biggest threat.