Tank Armor

Veteran · 2004-01-16, 08:44 AM

This is not another empire balance whine, but I think it's valid.

Why does the MagRider (once the best tank, now second-best) have little over 3,000 armor while the Vanguard has around 6,000?

The armor values for tanks should be Mag = 4,000 Prowler = 4,500 Van = 5,000. Other tank tweaks would also be appropriate, but I'm not feeling ambitious this morning.

Van is just plain too heavily armored. The Van's popularity speaks for itself, and it's not because NC are an instinctively superior race. Van crews can make blatant tactical errors and live to tell the tale. No such luck for other tank crews. Life is short and brutal for them.

Also, a single man can use a Vanguard like a Flail. He can shoot the 150mm and 20mm to keep any target at bay. A Prowler gunner can't do anything of the sort. Mag gunners can, but their utterly low armor precludes such activity.

Anyhow, I think Van is too armored, and is a big reason why NC owns the game right now.

No flames, I'm not trying to insult anyone. This is just my opinion.

Incompetent · 2004-01-16, 08:48 AM

They need to reverse the current van/prowler armor. The Van is just evil the way it is now, best gun, best armor, low profile, no need for a second gunner (like the fucking useless Prowler.) The mag is fine, imho. It might need a minor armor buff, but it's so damned popular i would hate to see it any more powerful.

Veteran · 2004-01-16, 08:48 AM

Inc, you rule. Whenever I feel like I'm gonna get flamed into the dirt, you're right there with a reasonable reply.

SecondRaven · 2004-01-16, 09:15 AM

The Mag is is low in armor but it can move alot more easly and doge the shots of other empires tanks while shooting back aka strafe and shooot, the prowler well i feel TR's pain with that they do have to have alot of people just to main the dam thing. But i have no sympothy (cant spell it) for the magrider its fine the way it is.

Otherick · 2004-01-16, 09:18 AM

true I feel the Mag is fine but the Prowler needs some help

Veteran · 2004-01-16, 09:19 AM

The Van just plows the MagRider, and the thing turns sideways. After that, the Mag's gunner is owned. With the barrel planted firmly in the Mag's side, each shot is a direct hit.

God forbid I should be advocating for the MagRider, but it's been the victim of some pretty harsh stealth-nerfs, like its COF, and I think it has been cheated in the armor department.

I've gunned for all the tanks extensively. Never have I felt beyond reproach like when I'm gunning the 150mm/20mm Vanguard turret. My friends and I will make whole conversations out of our exploits with the Vanguard. With the Prowler and MagRider, it's generally griping.

JakeLogan · 2004-01-16, 11:04 AM

Yeah the mag does need a slight armor buff. and the prowler and van need an armor switch. doesn't make since that the slowest tank has only medium armor IMHO

BadAsh · 2004-01-16, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Veteran

The Van just plows the MagRider, and the thing turns sideways. After that, the Mag's gunner is owned. With the barrel planted firmly in the Mag's side, each shot is a direct hit.

If a Van got close enough to plow the Mag then that's the Mag driver's fault. I've said this before, but if you drive the Mag more like an assault buggy on roids rather then a drive up and pound tank you will own with it.

My NC outfit has some VERY good tank drivers, we tend to survive for long periods of time and rack up many kills. But nothing matches our carnage like when we jack a Mag. Literally I've seen our guys live for hours during a zerg.

The Mag has speed, mobility (fits better through trees, climbs hills better, and rockets right over water), and the best AA capability. The Van and Prowl are Reaver and Liberator bait.

Further the Mag is the most fun to drive. You get a forward firing cannon that is pretty effective and your capacity for mowing infantry and MAX units is unmatched in the game by any other vehicle. The other tank drivers just get to drive... no gun and mowing is marginal... even an AMS mows better... and um, no I'm not suggesting a mowing buff for either... lol, I hate mowing

The Prowler needs some attention though, it's not living up to expectations. I've suggested in these forums before that if you gave both main guns the same target impact area (i.e. no more "bouncing" crosshairs) they would be more effective and much more user friendly. The same goes for the dual chain guns on top... but they need a boost. I suggested giving them a gun that is as effective as one of the Deliverer's 20mm guns... then you'd have no problem getting someone to man the top turret. Currently the gun is so lame no one wants to man it, so typically Prowlers have no AA capability.

I have to check my sources here, but I thought the Prowler was king of the armor department? I wonder... anyone up for a Van Prowl TTK test? We park them close and just let the gunners blast on queue and see who wins? I'd like to try this a few times just to see if the results are reproducable and if the gimpy 12mm being manned or not has an effect... Im thinking the prowl with 2 gunners would win... but... maybe not.

SecondRaven · 2004-01-16, 01:29 PM

I totaly Agree with BadAsh

Incompetent · 2004-01-16, 01:43 PM

The problem with the dual chains is the spread, if they just locked it at nearly nothing like the version on the harrasser or the skeeter and buffed the size of the ammo boxes it would be fine. The problem is it's like driving a fucking cathedral around (+5 cool points for the first person to catch the reference.) Even if it wins a straight slugfest with a van, it'll never get the opportunity on the battlefield due to it's size, and it will NEVER win a battle which tests equal number of crewmen instead of equal number of tanks.

And it will always be a pain to drive and get caught on everything.

Heckler01 · 2004-01-16, 01:45 PM

2 full prowlers or 3 full vanguards....hrmmm

gonnagetyou · 2004-01-16, 01:54 PM

The Prowler should have deffinantly recieved the greater armor. Why they gave the Vanguard the most armor, most powerful gun and better speed than the Prowler I'll never understand. The Prowler's faster firing speed doesn't make any difference from what I've experienced. The chaingun on the Prowler is almost worthless. It's very difficult to find someone to man it and the small amount of ammo it recieves forces you to be very conservative with it. The Prowler isn't worthless but it needs some tweaking, that's for sure.

Zatrais · 2004-01-16, 02:16 PM

The one thing i don't get about the tank balance is:

Why doesn't the largest tank (profile wise) whit the slowest speed and worst acceleration have the most armor?

Wish they'd swap the vanguard and prowler armors.

Spee · 2004-01-16, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Incompetent

The problem is it's like driving a fucking cathedral around (+5 cool points for the first person to catch the reference.)

I once saw a hearse modded to look like a cathedral. 10$ says thats not the reference, though.

Incompetent · 2004-01-16, 02:46 PM

+3 cool points to spee, thats not it, but it fits.