The Basics of Religion.

eMaGyN · 2003-01-28, 04:41 PM

I think i'm really taking a chance here.
I want this thread to be civil... and the basis is religion, which can be very controversial and emotional, but i'm asking you guys to clearly think out your actions and words and the please post. Please do not just post "There is a God." or "There is no God." Include your reasonings, your doubts, your thoughts...
I think that this topic is extremely interesting and something that will teach us a great deal of things.

My conscious is telling me not to post this thread, but my heart is encouraging it. Please dont prove me wrong. Respect each other's differences.
Hopefully we will learn new things and different aspects.

eMa

Drahkas · 2003-01-28, 04:52 PM

Well I guess i'll be the first to say that I'm an athiest. My mother is catholic and I might have been also if I hadn't been taught history in school. Fact is, I belive that religion was made up to explain everything that we, with our limited technology, could could not. Science has most of the bases covered at this point...
The other reason would be... well just think about all of the harm it's done, from the early christians in rome to terrorism today.
I am, however, thinking a lot about buddhism. I haven't really had the time to study it more, but I think some of the basic consepts involved are very logical...

err i guess i'm done

Rayzer · 2003-01-28, 04:59 PM

eMa I'm not really sure what you are looking for. Are we here to talk about the existance of somthing greater? A God in some religions?

Personally, I think the debate is rather meaningless. Not that I think religion or more importantly spirituality is meaningless. It is just that faith in something greater is just that faith. I could site you a thousand reasons why there is no God or no greater force. However, that has no bearing on your faith or belief. No one can prove to anyone else that God does or does not exist. It is something we come to believe or not believe on our own. In a similar fashion you could spend thousands of lines detailing proof of some greater force and I could simply dismiss it and come up with my own explinations.

So if you are interested in discussing Religion I am happy to partake. Although, I must say that I generally have issues with most Religions. Spirituality is another discussion entirly. So if you want to clarify what you want to talk about I would be happy to join in.

But, I'm not going to debate the existance of a greater force. Humans are just not built to change their minds on that issue through debate. Your own personal answer to that question comes from within. And in seeking an answer to what you believe it is often helpful to talk to others. But don't ask them if God exists or not.

Rayzer · 2003-01-28, 05:06 PM

"The other reason would be... well just think about all of the harm it's done, from the early christians in rome to terrorism today."

That is true and it is not. At the core of it all human's simply used organized Religion as a vehical to promote their own ends. They use it to manipulate others. At the same time those same religions have been used to do a lot of good in the world. Yes, many have beliefs and practices that I don't agree with. But, these doctorines chance and evolve over time, like everything.

In many ways I find lots of faults with organized religon. Partly because of some of the practices and many times because they are used as an excuse for actions not in line with the basic philosophy of those religions.

What am I trying to say here? Hmmmm. If you take any relgion and analyze its practices and teachings. Then you use a bit of compassion and common sense ( You know, ignore things like slavery and smiting down someone who looks at your wife.) they all have a great deal of value. Unfortunatly, many times people choose not to use them in that manner, and instead they grab hold of those parts that bennifit themselves and their goals and they use the religion to manipulate people.

Hope that all makes sense

Squeeky · 2003-01-28, 05:06 PM

I dont believe in organized religion. I believe in everyone having there own beliefs.

I think religion is a fancy way of sating what do you believe in?

I am not atheist (i hate labels) but like i said i have my own beliefs. I believe god is non-existant. I do belive in destiny, i believe you have a purpose in life, and you were put on earth for a reason. I believe in fate, and i believe such things as sinning. But to a certain extent. Sinning to me is doing something in which you know is wrong, whenever i feel i have sinned, i make an effort to take an action (wether it be pysichal, verbal etc... whatever) to do something good to right my wrong. I've re-typed this reply 3 times now and i think that my belief on "religion" would take pages upon pages to explain. Something i dont wanna do

ChrisMOG · 2003-01-28, 05:09 PM

Nobody knows/has any proof (I mean REAL proof) so I think we should just all be silent.

Airlift · 2003-01-28, 05:13 PM

We could talk about dozens of centuries of atrocities committed in the name of religion. We could talk about how governing bodies have been using religion as a giant boot to maintain a steeply casted society since there has been such a thing as society. Or we could get into how blind faith brings out the violent nature in humans in fear of our own mortality.

I'd rather talk about Planetside.

Rayzer · 2003-01-28, 05:13 PM

No Chris, nobody does. But that is one of the wonders of faith that amazes me in a lot of people. How they can hold on to the belief dispite people constantly trying to prove that there is no such thing. If that faith can help that person bring a little less suffering to the world, then it is a wonderful thing.

I don't think not talking about these things is the right way to go. I really really oppose preaching at people though. However, humans are quite capable of having a meaniful discussion about the issues without forcing their views on anyone else. A sharing of ideas rather than stating, "My way is right and yours is wrong."

Warborn · 2003-01-28, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Airlift
I'd rather talk about Planetside.

Pet peev of my right here. If you don't want to get involved, don't. Nobody is forcing you, and you shouldn't try to shoot down a discussion because you don't personally agree with it.

Rayzer · 2003-01-28, 05:16 PM

"We could talk about dozens of centuries of atrocities committed in the name of religion. We could talk about how governing bodies have been using religion as a giant boot to maintain a steeply casted society since there has been such a thing as society. Or we could get into how blind faith brings out the violent nature in humans in fear of our own mortality.

I'd rather talk about Planetside."

Or we could talk about a 25 year old woman, having spent 2 years of her life battling cancer. Finally at peace in her last days because of her faith and belief that she is going to a better place. Her struggle having inspired her sister to form a foundation to help childern through there battle with cancer.

It is easy to look at the big picture and condem things that have happened. But don't ever forget people like Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi who used their beliefs to make the world a better place.

Airlift · 2003-01-28, 05:17 PM

Don't go getting all short with me, Warborn. Not only was I not shooting down the discussion, but I threw in three full subtopics (which I'll add is THREE more than your post).

So bring a better flame or have a seat in the back.

ChrisMOG · 2003-01-28, 05:18 PM

Well, when people are taught by their parents at an early age to believe something, like religion or even racism/hate, it is very hard for people to forget them. I guess its like social programming; once they are taught how to act regarding certain things, they just follow their programming...with very few people deviating. People blow themselves up over this stuff.

:/

Ignore Me · 2003-01-28, 05:21 PM

Lets see.. fun subject...

I'm Agnostic, defined by Webster as "one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god" which is what i believe some people who call themselves "atheists" really mean...

My parents were both catholic, and tries to raise me catholic, but when i was entering my pre-teen/early teens, I started asking myself "What is this all about?"... then my father was diagnoused with brain cancer, and died 2 years later, and That just completely shattered my 'faith' in any one, or any specific, god...

since then i've basicly stood by that, I dont believe in organize religion either, IMO Organized religion was founded of control, long ago the roman catholic church had complete control over someone's life... and as it was said on TribesTalk Recently, more people have probably been killed by catholics "in the name of god" then have been saved by the 7th? commandment of the Catholics saying "though shall not kill"...

I do not force my beliefs on anyone, nor do i seek out others who believe what i do, It's my personally belief, voiced here because you asked, Flames against me = pointless, and i wont flame others beliefs... because beliefs... are just that... what you believe, and no one has a right to control what you believe... *cough catholic church* =)

Last note, most religions claim their god is 'merciful', well I live a good, acceptable, and generous life, and dont violate any 'universal religious' rules (dont kill, steal, etc.), so if 'god' is truely merciful, he'll accept me whatever religion I choose to, or choose not to, believe in...

Drahkas · 2003-01-28, 05:21 PM

I guess i'm lucky to have a parent that allowed me to choose when I was old enough... I am just starting to care about such things.
If i ever have kids I'd treat them the same. It seems like brainwashing to me, forcing children into your own belifes.

Rayzer · 2003-01-28, 05:23 PM

At the same time Chris there comes a point in a persons life when they must question what they were taught. Really figure out for themselves if they believe everything. I was rasied Catholic, went to church every Sunday. I would hardly consider myself Catholic now. Christian maybe. I'm with Squeeky, I have my own religion

People blow themselves up because they have been manipulated and controlled by other people who used a religion as a tool. But at the heart of the matter are people who did this to them. It is not neccessarily the religion's fault.