TR on Markov... (and any other factions of ignorance)

Krinsath · 2004-02-25, 09:42 AM

Can someone please explain where these...I lost words to describe them. I've played against every faction on Emerald, and against TR and NC on Markov. No group stuns me more with stupid antics than that crew. Skilled TR players on Markov (and I know you exist somewhere)...please lend these guys a hand, it's getting ridiculous.

I'll share with you guys a few illustrations of their...incompetence. Feel free to add your own stories of really stupid enemies from any faction.

First, because two or three days later I'm still stunned by this...the TR's feeble attempts to take West Pwyll tower. To understand this, it was one of those "every battle continent pop locked" and Instant Action dumping people in the middle of nowhere...in other words, we couldn't have taken Pwyll if we wanted to, so it was essentially a meaningless battle.

However, the VS were fighting like it meant something...probably a little over a dozen people. The TR had approximately equal numbers if not a little more, plus the fact that they controlled all of Forseral. For the better part of an hour, the VS completely owned the TR, smashing them as they RAN ACROSS THE FIELD without MAX or Vehicle support. Before you think that we just sat in the tower and lasher spammed them, 90% of the fighting occured outside and closer to Pwyll than the tower, so the VS were taking it to the TR. Evidently there were some guys who were old players returning or guys who live under the proverbial PS rock...as a DC MAX walked right by me (a badly wounded infantryman who was Lashering the heck out of him) to engage a VS MAX. He did this a number of times...to the point where I actually sent him a tell "You do know that's the AI MAX, right?"...no response.

The ultimate illustration of how bad these guys were (reason they're not at the front-lines, huh?) was the Prowler incident. They finally hit on the bright idea of bringing in vehicles (since their MAX crash kind of fell apart when they lost two of the three in the gate of Pwyll) and I was bored and running along the north wall of Pwyll. A Prowler comes out the North gate, and appears to have, get this...a 12mm gunner and a driver. Being the bright little Vanu I am, I'm carrying Jammer nades, so I throw one at the tank expecting to have to dodge behind cover. The 100-ton tank *drives away* from the guy carrying AI weapons. I keep running around to the west side and the Prowler comes looking for me again, so I toss another jammer on it. More or less in the open here against the wall...prime mowing target and the driver...*drives away*. Get to the back door, hack in, the Prowler hot on my heels. I walk in about three steps and pull out my lasher as the tank crew dismounts and tries to attack me on foot....ONE AT A TIME. Ok, HA in RExo vs. Agile using Suppressor and Punisher one on one....I don't care which empire you're talking about, the HA will probably win. The cloaker who had been following me showed up shortly thereafter and got pasted as well (owing more to the TR suits high visibility than any actual fault of the cloaker). I then run around the entire south end of the base and across the front of the gate the TR are using to launch their attacks and then get back to the tower and rearm. I'm still flabbergasted on how that can happen in the middle of a fairly heavy fight.

The other situation was last night in a Bio lab (can't remember which now). Again, TR simply getting slaughtered because they're just zerging. They had an AMS that was directly across from the back door (but a goodly ways away), so of course every so often the TR would break in and you'd see an assault. Knowing that they were futilely trying this, I set up with a Lasher...that's where it's designed to shine after all. The TR actually mount a decent assault of about 8 guys at once. Two guys get pasted after running into Lasher orbs in Agile (Surgiles...give it up, running into the orbs faster doesn't work) but then the guys in RExo (about six...may have been a MAX in that crew though) open fire with their Cyclers in some semblance of smart gameplay and force me to withdraw. They then *stop* at the door out of the corridor and bunch up into some sort of defensive formation. Someone needs to tell these guys that bunching up in a narrow space is a bad idea against ANY HA. So of course I do a few hit and runs and kill 5 of them (since they always give me time to use medpacks between attacks) until one gets lucky and hits me when I have no armor and 23 health with a Striker round...the fact that he was actually using a striker to attack infantry should be a further indictment of the TR on Markov, even if he did manage to kill me.

That and the fact that I've killed three separate infiltrators on Markov who forgot to cloak. I've absent-mindedly forgotten to cloak as well, but I've never actually walked into a battle without going "oh yeah..." and hitting B.

Anyone else have stupid enemy empire stories? I'm sure they're not relegated solely to the TR on Markov, but they're the most grievous offenders I've seen.

SilverLord · 2004-02-25, 10:18 AM

TR on Markov might be a little different than what our fast action respose is on Emerald TR. When ever we respond to a threat on our home continents we always have Ash and his guys taking care of things in Reavers unless the force is too big and then they call for support.

Just a little tid bit of info. Me, as a TR last saturday was defending Marduk on Ishunder against about 12-15 NC and I had my good ol' cloaker outfit mate with me. I would just use guerilla tactics and stay and hid and get one then run away and then heal/repair and then hide again in a different spot so I could have the suprise advantage. Me and my cloaker friend won the fight because i held them off while he stealth hacked the tower, eventually kicking the NC off the continent.

This is how TR works on Emerald against small forces, we use the hit and run stuff that the NC don't expect because they think they are one man armies with that damn JH.

P.S. This was before the JH bug fix.

Krinsath · 2004-02-25, 10:49 AM

I know how we operate SL.

And yes, we have some of the best reaction forces around...WE'VE never had problems with the post-patch Lasher.

We've been winning Emerald lately...hmmmmmm...

Probably why I dislike the TR on Markov so much...I know what they could be.

SilverLord · 2004-02-25, 10:50 AM

From your post it looked like you played all VS. My fault.

Krinsath · 2004-02-25, 10:53 AM

*points to his signature showing stats for a BR 17 and a BR 12 TR on Emerald*

S'Okay, I've been in on many of those fast responses. Nothing more fun than hitting ignorant Vanu.

For reference, my two VS (Markov) characters that I've played for any amount of time are BR 15 and BR 8.

NC (Emerald) are BR 16, BR 8 and BR 7

SilverLord · 2004-02-25, 10:56 AM

Didn't look at the sig. I used to be a Reaver pilot and was a fast respone person until the MCG/Rexo/MA/SA/AV combo called.

Wraithlord · 2004-02-25, 11:33 AM

I can tell you the reason for all the newb TR players, its the huge outfit with 2k people in it that is COMPLETELY devoted to zerging and NEVER trains its members, they are THE primere zerg outfit in the game if you didnt know, they constantly spam sanctuary to get more n00bs to fill there ranks, they consistantly have 300+ people on at all hours and are always zerging somewere, the majority of their players are people with 15 or below BR with only one character.

They are pathetic, there members are pathetic, and its a dishonor to even have them fighting by my side.

THOSE are the stupid mass of TR you encounter on markhov

ChemicalHex · 2004-02-25, 11:44 AM

That stupid mass of idiots is D2A. They have some good players, but as a whole I do not like their outfit one bit. Last week, me and a few friends were fighting on Ishundar, and there was perhaps two squads of D2A with us...I felt like I was in the idiot capitol of the world. I actually logged off when after 3 hours of fighting a pretty even force of NC we made no progress and were actually getting pushed back. I saw them make some really bone headed decisions. Like when an enemy stealther became bugged and was visible with the naked eye and was standing right next to the door of a tower, and no one shot him. I stood behind the stealther, and waited for someone, anyone, to notice. No offense to anyone in D2A, but your outfit frustrates me.

Majik · 2004-02-25, 11:57 AM

Well, I will try not to add to the TR-Markov mahem, as I just started one the other day for a change of scenery from my VS-Emerald.

Krinsath · 2004-02-25, 12:42 PM

Hold tactics classes Majik

PLEASE.

Hey, I think I used to have TR alts on Johari (now Markov) want to start up an outfit?

BadAsh · 2004-02-25, 12:52 PM

My experience with the TR leadership on Markov has been one of disappointment. I know it sounds harsh to place the blame like that considering I�m a CR0 and have no interest in leadership within the game myself. Anyway, without trying to sound too negative, many simply have a defeatist attitude which propagates a poor morale amongst the troops. They feel that the TR have been fighting a losing battle against equipment superiority for a long time and don�t think things will change any time soon. Any TS channel you join you hear the CR4 and 5�s grumping about the VS MAX horde or the NC Jackhammer or NC Vanguards.

This complaining, while somewhat justified, was rather inescapable. It was on TS, it was on Global Chats, and on various organization message boards. Being the underdog can be a challenge, but after a time or more accurately a LONG time (Like the time it takes to achieve CR5) it can begin to wear you down.

The VS are frustrating because once you fight them down into a base the combination of a lot of MAX units fighting side by side with heavy infantry armed with Lashers is just brutal. The NC are tough because of the horde of Vanguards you face on the surface and the swarm of Jackhammers you face when you finally get them to CQB. The NC also use MAX units with infantry quite effectively.

Conversely, the TR never manage to field enough armor because Prowler crews are more rare so we get owned by armor on the surface. So outdoor battles are rough when you have infantry, few MAX units, and a few assault buggies fighting hordes of superior tanks. Then when you get indoors your infantry are on their own because the TR MAX units are just grief machines. So the same scenario plays out. Again it�s infantry vs. infantry and armor (MAX).

After a time the good leaders and players become frustrated. Commands become unclear and sent without conviction. TR players either get blasted for not doing well or get the half hearted consolation �we will get them next time� only there is no next time. And then there are just the poor leadership decisions. I�m not sure what the obsession is about holding a locked �home� continent, but it�s sad. Typically, we�d be somewhat holding out in a battle against the NC super zerg and then some CR5 genius decides we need to help defend Ihsundar against the VS zerg! This formula for guaranteeing losing simultaneous zergs played out over and over and over. I honestly can�t tell you how many times we were spanked back to the sanctuary in this manner.

However, some leaders did arise and form Prower columns combined with Skyguard protection and Reaver Platoons. Then the DEVS changed the way POP Locks work. For the longest time on Markov the NC had mastered the super zerg where they flood a continent and garner the 60% of the total population. Now they can�t get more then 33% and that practice abruptly stopped. Sure any empire could do this but the NC are the ones who intentionally knew about this and exploited it to full effect. It was smart tactics and was part of their war doctrine and with their tactical and equipment superiority they had the total overall player population to pull this off nightly. Finally, the DEVS made changes to the TR MAX units and now you will finally begin to see effective TR squads of AI MAX units and Heavy Infantry! That is a significant change! Start looking for TR MAX Crash Teams!

Things look much better now for the guys in RED. I think after time you will begin to see the TR become much more formidable as their player base increases and they get more organized again.

Krinsath · 2004-02-25, 01:10 PM

Again, most of the time I think I get the TR "reserve" units...but compared to what I know about the boys in red on Emerald, Markov is really....not good.

Emerald the TR have the same equipment, the same liabilities and the same idiot leadership (the /ignore list grows more every day!). Then again, we also have a bunch of people who are quite intelligent and just want to have fun. I've found the CRs who aren't on ignore on Emerald actually understand strategy more than most other factions I fight with. For instance, they'll abandon Neit and Gwyddion on Forseral to consolidate a defense at Caer (which is much more defensible). They'll divert forces away from where the zerg is rolling to a more productive part of the continent, but still keep enough forces in one place to keep the enemy from advancing.

The VS leadership on Markov is quite similar (can't speak to any others on Markov) where in a heavy battle, there's a cool voice directing where things need to go and keeping the battle lines turning purple. Not to say that they don't have their share of CR idiots, but they've got more good ones. Another reason the TR on Markov make me shake my head:

Itan, a common battleground on the perma-three way that is Cyssor. IA dumps me in the tower. Get killed by a Prowler...all right! Finally! TR with a clue! Spawn at the AMS, get into the backdoor, shoved into a boomer trap by idiot zerger behind me...but again! Use of tactics! All right! Get rezzed, find cloaker and shoot him. Walk around the Bio lab the long way. Walk into CC...nobody there, not even a motion sensor. Hack the console (with no hacking cert) and walk out and kill 4 TR who attempt to take it back. VS captures the base. I'm at a loss to explain why I was able to walk in the back door of a contested facility...more or less walk up to the CC and hack it.

Haven't seen defense that bad since right after retail when nobody knew what they were doing.

JakeLogan · 2004-02-25, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

My experience with the TR leadership on Markov has been one of disappointment. I know it sounds harsh to place the blame like that considering I�m a CR0 and have no interest in leadership within the game myself. Anyway, without trying to sound too negative, many simply have a defeatist attitude which propagates a poor morale amongst the troops. They feel that the TR have been fighting a losing battle against equipment superiority for a long time and don�t think things will change any time soon. Any TS channel you join you hear the CR4 and 5�s grumping about the VS MAX horde or the NC Jackhammer or NC Vanguards.

This complaining, while somewhat justified, was rather inescapable. It was on TS, it was on Global Chats, and on various organization message boards. Being the underdog can be a challenge, but after a time or more accurately a LONG time (Like the time it takes to achieve CR5) it can begin to wear you down.

The VS are frustrating because once you fight them down into a base the combination of a lot of MAX units fighting side by side with heavy infantry armed with Lashers is just brutal. The NC are tough because of the horde of Vanguards you face on the surface and the swarm of Jackhammers you face when you finally get them to CQB. The NC also use MAX units with infantry quite effectively.

Conversely, the TR never manage to field enough armor because Prowler crews are more rare so we get owned by armor on the surface. So outdoor battles are rough when you have infantry, few MAX units, and a few assault buggies fighting hordes of superior tanks. Then when you get indoors your infantry are on their own because the TR MAX units are just grief machines. So the same scenario plays out. Again it�s infantry vs. infantry and armor (MAX).

After a time the good leaders and players become frustrated. Commands become unclear and sent without conviction. TR players either get blasted for not doing well or get the half hearted consolation �we will get them next time� only there is no next time. And then there are just the poor leadership decisions. I�m not sure what the obsession is about holding a locked �home� continent, but it�s sad. Typically, we�d be somewhat holding out in a battle against the NC super zerg and then some CR5 genius decides we need to help defend Ihsundar against the VS zerg! This formula for guaranteeing losing simultaneous zergs played out over and over and over. I honestly can�t tell you how many times we were spanked back to the sanctuary in this manner.

However, some leaders did arise and form Prower columns combined with Skyguard protection and Reaver Platoons. Then the DEVS changed the way POP Locks work. For the longest time on Markov the NC had mastered the super zerg where they flood a continent and garner the 60% of the total population. Now they can�t get more then 33% and that practice abruptly stopped. Sure any empire could do this but the NC are the ones who intentionally knew about this and exploited it to full effect. It was smart tactics and was part of their war doctrine and with their tactical and equipment superiority they had the total overall player population to pull this off nightly. Finally, the DEVS made changes to the TR MAX units and now you will finally begin to see effective TR squads of AI MAX units and Heavy Infantry! That is a significant change! Start looking for TR MAX Crash Teams!

Things look much better now for the guys in RED. I think after time you will begin to see the TR become much more formidable as their player base increases and they get more organized again.

Yep last night on Emerald TR had 5 conts locked down and were massing another assault on Searhus with the VS. Good times are coming for the Red and Black.

Acaila · 2004-02-25, 01:46 PM

NC on Markov don't have strong CR5 leadership, but they have many strong and well organized outfits with high levels of individual player skill. FPS skill + organization = win. 666th is very large part of what makes NC win on Markov though, they have great organization and are massive, they are the zerg, but they are all on TS doing their job. Props to 666th for keeping that many people doing what they have to do. The smaller but highly skilled outfits break the stalemates by capturing towers with large skeeter drops, etc.

TR on Markov have the same thing, but unfortunately it is diluted in the mass of idiots that reside in certain large outfits. D2A is no 666th. PCP however has more effect on a battle with 1/4 of the numbers than most other TR outfits. They cap towers as well as Ht, and seeing xxAJxx, IIIAntarresIII and 15 other PCP people come through a tower door is nasty. TR often doesn't resecure back hacks and doesn't clean up towers. They don't field enough vehicles, they are afraid to get fragged, TR mills around outside towers and bases then comes in 2 or 3 at a time. If all 40 of them who are standing right outside would just run in the doors, they would clear a path in with relative ease. They take too long to move forward and that costs them, as their opponent has ample time to regroup.

VS on Markov spent a long time having less players than TR and NC and I think that taught them alot of team work on an empire wide level. They work well and are difficult to back hack, the only real way to beat them is head on. VS listen to their CR5s more than TR and NC. Don't forget they have the 1337est gen blower in the game, if the gen is up, it won't be for long.

Heckler01 · 2004-02-25, 07:16 PM

Ohh the TR... I don't think I have ever been more frustrated with anything as I am with the Markov TR. Lately it has been getting worse tho. First off they don't listen to any CR5. It's not that the CR5s don't try, its that those mindless zerging nooblets don't listen at all. 2nd, noone cares about backhacks. Maybe a handful of people will try to secure a back hack, other then the outfit that im with. 3rd ... the worst of all... They have no balls. They are afraid to die and then when the slightest thing isn't in their favor they recall.

I have been playing for only about 3-4 months, but never have I been so frustrated as I am with the TR lately