Prowler not bad?

Hito · 2004-03-19, 12:59 PM

Plz dont flame me on this but i was on tr for awhile and now im vs - i only used the prowler and some people keep complaining about it - but i thought it was great because it could hold more then 2 people and use the cannon and gun at same time.
now isent that better if u ask me? having more then one mind in a vehicle? more killz more exp? i just dont think the prowler is a bad tank if you ask me thats all-agreements-flameing-opinions-proceed

Lartnev · 2004-03-19, 01:02 PM

If you can get a 12mm gunner yes. Most of the time that isn't the case

Electrofreak · 2004-03-19, 01:20 PM

Yeah gunners for the 12mm are damn hard to come by

Krinsath · 2004-03-19, 01:47 PM

If the 12mm actually landed half of it's shots on anything smaller than a battle tank, it'd be great! That's a flaw of every dual weapon system, along with the fact that the RoF doesn't increase as a result (still not sure how the hell that works out...the dual guns fire at the same rate TOGETHER as a SINGLE one does...shouldn't there be twice as many bullets used in the same amount of time?

).

Problem with the Prowler has to do with comparisons.

1) It's a big, giant target with medium armor. It's common competitors are both shorter and harder to hit, and in the case of the Vanguard do more damage per shot...which really sucks when it's easy for them to land DIRECT hits on you.

2) If you're going into a straight armor battle with full crews, the TR can take a full platoon and field 10 tanks. The NC and VS can both take that same platoon and field 15. Want to place bets on who's going to win that fight?

3) Pretend that they don't take full crews, the NC and VS can drop two tanks from their force and get 4 Reavers and completely devastate the Prowlers that have no way to respond. 4 Reavers > 2 tanks with no ability to counter them.

4) The Prowler, despite being the biggest target, cannot outrun anything. If you get badly damaged, you better pray for support because you're screwed otherwise.

Quick and dirty solutions to the 1v1 imbalance with NC (it's a decent enough tank against the Mag): Swap Armor with Vanguard OR swap speed with Vanguard. The Prowler should be superior to that tank in one of those areas.

Solutions to the 150% crew requirement: Dunno, short of allowing the main gunner to control both if there is no 3rd crewman.

ORANGE · 2004-03-19, 04:49 PM

It took me close to a min to kill a guy in rexo with the 12mm and as for AA those things are crap the guns are nice but you can't go head to head against a vanguard or mag they will blow you away (vang because heavier armor, mag more manuverable) that is unless you have a good driver who knows that you can't stand and slug it out you need to use what little mobility the thing has to move around (most drivers don't know this however).

oddfish · 2004-03-19, 04:54 PM

hence the reason i still maintain that the damn prowler should be much faster than it is, and a new one-- It should have faster shell velocity because the shell size is smaller, therefore not as much weight, so accuracy would improve and yeah.. yeah..

Eldanesh · 2004-03-19, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Krinsath

4) The Prowler, despite being the biggest target, cannot outrun anything. If you get badly damaged, you better pray for support because you're screwed otherwise.

Quick and dirty solutions to the 1v1 imbalance with NC (it's a decent enough tank against the Mag): Swap Armor with Vanguard OR swap speed with Vanguard. The Prowler should be superior to that tank in one of those areas.

Solutions to the 150% crew requirement: Dunno, short of allowing the main gunner to control both if there is no 3rd crewman.

Swap Armor with Vanguard OR swap speed with Vanguard.

Driving a tank that is slow does suck, mainly because you cannot escape to repair and die far more often. I would not say swap it with the vanguard, but buff speed up to the vanguard. As is, a prowler can screw up an vanguard really badly if it closes the distance and can get solid shots with the main gun, I could not imagine trying to kill those things if I had to work through all that extra armor or could not have a chance at disengaging.

Look at max advantages, NC can take more hits, TR gets better DPS (yes, I know the lockdown sucks, but its more the theme I refer to). If the tanks are moving the same, or close to the same speed, the tank fight is even. It already is close to even on Van vs Prowler, as the 10 kph or so does not make as big a difference in that type of fight, unless one was damaged or has the aid of av.

Also magriders should sink on the water after sitting out there for a few minutes, it is a massive pain in the ass, every time if you are within 200m of water they will immediatly run and instantly that 150 becomes a 20 while you become a massive target.

Oh, the 12mm should also be coaxial with the 100mm until a 3rd person jumps in imo, ditto for marauder. There is no reason that one of your advantages should be such a massive liability.

Krinsath · 2004-03-19, 04:57 PM

Lowering muzzle velocity isn't really justifiable on a weight basis. One could argue that although the 150mm shell is heavier, the NC being the gun nuts they are just packed more propellent than usual in it.

However, I wouldn't argue with the Prowler having a better trajectory on it's guns. Find it annoying that ALL the cannons in this game fire in an arc...did we lose the ability in the future to make tank shells that go straight ahead?

Originally Posted by Eldanesh

Driving a tank that is slow does suck, mainly because you cannot escape to repair and die far more often. I would not say swap it with the vanguard, but buff speed up to the vanguard. As is, a prowler can screw up an vanguard really badly if it closes the distance and can get solid shots with the main gun, I could not imagine trying to kill those things if I had to work through all that extra armor or could not have a chance at disengaging.

Look at max advantages, NC can take more hits, TR gets better DPS (yes, I know the lockdown sucks, but its more the theme I refer to). If the tanks are moving the same, or close to the same speed, the tank fight is even. It already is close to even on Van vs Prowler, as the 10 kph or so does not make as big a difference in that type of fight, unless one was damaged or has the aid of av.

The problem is that the Vanguard beats the Prowler on BOTH counts. If the Van had heavier armor but a slower speed, it would still even out as the Vanguard scores hits a heck of a lot easier on the Prowler (it's not exactly a small target).

I agree that swapping armor doesn't seem as valid, but leaving it as the loser in both will ensure that tank remains on the sidelines.

JakeLogan · 2004-03-19, 04:59 PM

I find it ironic that the van has the most armor even though it says on the vehicle description (or at least it used to) that the prowler is the slowest but most heavily armored tank in the game

Eldanesh · 2004-03-19, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by JakeLogan

I find it ironic that the van has the most armor even though it says on the vehicle description (or at least it used to) that the prowler is the slowest but most heavily armored tank in the game

You can either have best armor or best DPS and TTK, pick one.

(well... apparently so unless you are a rexo HA noob, but for tanks it works)

JakeLogan · 2004-03-19, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Eldanesh

You can either have best armor or best DPS and TTK, pick one.

Since it's the slowest I pick more armor

worldvengence · 2004-03-19, 05:25 PM

Well, we would be better off with a 2 man crew and not 3!! that much is for sure

Cryptica · 2004-03-20, 12:55 AM

I will agree the prowler does suck in reality. In concept its cool. I mean, you can have your chaingun firing at one guy and the cannon at another. That's neat. Unfourtunately, in reality, that bonus is almost 100% defeated by its slow speed, lack of manuverability, and poor armor (relatively speaking). My first idea to improve it would be one of two things. 1) Make it faster than the van. A lot of people have said this, and I think it makes sense. 2) Increase the RoF on both the cannon and the guns. I mean really, the TR are supposedly all about massive RoF, right? Why not make it so the cannon fires like 2 shots per second? That would be neat. It's slightly faster than the Lightning tanks cannon, which fires around 1 to 1.5 per second, if my estimations are right.

Peacemaker · 2004-03-20, 03:08 AM

Tacticaly the Prowlers can own. One on one they get stomped.

While were on the target what about magrider primary? PUT AN ARC ON THE POS AND INCREASE DAMAGE. Fucking tanks are NOT AA GUNS. They are NOT SNIPERS. Dont give me any energy doesnt drop bull. Look at the flail shell. Its energy and it drops.

Krinsath · 2004-03-20, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

Tacticaly the Prowlers can own. One on one they get stomped.

While were on the target what about magrider primary? PUT AN ARC ON THE POS AND INCREASE DAMAGE. Fucking tanks are NOT AA GUNS. They are NOT SNIPERS. Dont give me any energy doesnt drop bull. Look at the flail shell. Its energy and it drops.

Actually, energy doesn't drop...it dissipates (sp?)...the Mag's gun is mean, but it really can't take down moving aircraft reliably. If you're standing still in an aircraft near where enemy MBTs are operating...well, you deserve to be shot down. Just like the cloaker who uses surge when a sniper is in the area deserves to get one-shotted.

The Mag does a mediocre job against armor, air and infantry...doesn't do a GREAT job against any of them. That sounds like a rather versatile unit...if only the VS were about flexibility....