My New System Final Specs

Biohazzard56 · 2004-05-15, 02:02 PM

Ok I revised this thread and made a new one so here are the new links:

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (Not Available, Socket 939)
nForce 3 250 (Not Available, Socket 939)
1 Gig of PC3200 DDR 400 RAM
Black X-Gamer Tower Case w/ 450W PSU
120 GB 8MB Cache Samsung HardDrive
Radeon 9600XT (Already Have)

I have a few more questions, specifically about the case. How many fans would I need (check the case page), and what is "sleeve the power supply". Thanks for your help:

Current Budget: $720

Vitter · 2004-05-15, 10:41 PM

Go with this hard drive instead:

Seagate 120GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
Seagate 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive

Same capacity, faster seek time, and it's Seagate (awesome reliability). I have the SATA one in my PC and will soon be getting another for a RAID array, i am that happy with it. Price is like 2-3 dollars more or less expencive depending on whether you want the SATA or IDE.

The RAM you selected is ok, i guess. I don't like the 2.5 timing, and I shudder to think what the other timings are. For $50 more you can get this:

OCZ Enhanced Latency Series Dual Channel Kits 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200

Timings of 2-3-2-6 which is fuking sweet. OCZ is very affordable for the quality you get, especially compared to Corsair or Corsair XMS. Go to your MB's website and check compatability. OCZ is compatable with almost everything. Very rarely does a MB manufacturer say they are compatable with Corsair (i don't think Asus has ANY MB's compatable with Corsair), it's a gamble buying it.

Just so you know, I have the DDR500 PC4000 of that same stuff. Gaming with it is as close to godlike as you can get. One of my best purchases - buying from OCZ.

The video card you've got is ok. I like ATI alot. Depending on your financial situation I would suggest either upgrading to a 128mb Radeon 9800 Pro (perhaps from Saphire, i hear their good). Or waiting for the new stuff from ATI and Nvidia to drop in price, considering they are a HUGE jump in technology.

Vitter · 2004-05-15, 10:43 PM

I just checked the case. I urge caution before buying it. I noticed the acrylic window has a fan in the middle. That's a big no-no for most people, as fans (unless they are extremely underpowered [ie: useless]) located there tend to rattle the acrylic window.

Biohazzard56 · 2004-05-15, 10:55 PM

I need a good case, link?

Vitter · 2004-05-16, 12:23 AM

So far my favorite case has to be this one:

ANTEC Black Performance Series II SOHO File Server Tower ATX Case with 400W Power Supply

It's fucking STEEL baby! Aint a damn thing going to hurt that. Plus, it's Antec, which means it's an Antec power source. Antec makes the BEST power sources, hands down.

It's also very very cool for the following reasons:

Quick release drive bays with release lever
Lockable swing out side panel with a handle
Cooling capacity: up to 5 x 80mm fans
Front mounted USB & IEEE1394 (FireWire) ports
Washable Air filter on the front
SmartPower - runs cooler and quieter.

[EDIT] If you want one with an acrylic window I highly reccomend Cheiftec. You can see their silver version here:

CHIEFTEC Silver Server Chasis Workstation Tower with Side Panel Window

Note, Cheiftec doesnt come with a power source. Solution? Get one of these:

Antec 430W Power Supply

Electrofreak · 2004-05-16, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Vitter

I just checked the case. I urge caution before buying it. I noticed the acrylic window has a fan in the middle. That's a big no-no for most people, as fans (unless they are extremely underpowered [ie: useless]) located there tend to rattle the acrylic window.

My nicely high-power 80mm fan in my acrylic window doesnt rattle it in the least.

Prolly cause I spent $150 on my case tho.

Also, I have Kingston HyperX PC3500 with better stock timings than that OCZ PC3200. Personally, Kingston is my first choice in RAM. Also, with an AMD CPU, you want to try to go for better timings over higher mem clock speed, because it makes more of a difference than it does with Intel. Thus, my PC3500 will actually perform better than PC4000 in my AMD system because of its timings. (Don't hold me to this however, I haven't run any benchmarks to prove it.)

Other than those slight disagreements, I have to agree with him on the Seagate drive. They fricking own (I've had Seagates for like 5+ years now, never had a single problem with any of them).

Vitter DID pic a good ANTEC case (and yes, ANTECS are nice cases, I have one for a system I'm building for my brother.) They have good cooling and yes, nice power supplies. However, I prefer Aluminum towers over steel whenever possible, as Aluminum is better for heat dissapation (not that it makes a huge difference) and are lighter. Also, personally, I'd go for something flashier.

Hey thats just me tho, that case will work pretty damn well.

Vitter · 2004-05-16, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Electrofreak

I have Kingston HyperX PC3500 with better stock timings than that OCZ PC3200. Personally, Kingston is my first choice in RAM.

Oh really? Well according to Kingston's own website the only HyperX PC3500 DDRAM they have has timings of 2-3-3-7 T1. My OCZ has timings of 2-3-2-6 T1. In case you didn't know - lower numbers are better.

Kingston does have PC3200 RAM that has identical timings as OCZ. However, it is more expencive. Twenty dollars more expencive.

Furthermore, a gig of that PC3500 Kingston goes for $300. I got a gig of OCZ DDR500 PC4000 for just $10 more than that.

So feel free to pick any category (aside from which starts with a K) - OCZ is superior.

My nicely high-power 80mm fan in my acrylic window doesnt rattle it in the least.

Prolly cause I spent $150 on my case tho.

I would imagine if you spent $150 that it wouldn't rattle. Same as I would imagine spending 3k on an Alienware would get you a PC that can play games well.

Only a certain demographic gets alienware PC's. Same with getting $150 cases. For under $100 he can get an excellent Cheiftec case (i pictured it) with an acrylic window and all the features i noted above. That $100 also includes a 430W Antec power supply.

I hardly think $50 is worth spending to get a fan put on the window. Especially when the case has 4x80mm slots already.

Oh, and Alluminum is ok. However, it scratches easily. I tend to keep my PC in one spot and would rather have it be 1-2 degrees celcius warmer than have it all dinged up from everyday use (shoes, kittens, etc).

Rbstr · 2004-05-16, 01:30 PM

The only thign i would say is Alluminum is Much etter thatn steel, its lighter, and has better heat dissipation, and there is no real noticable difference in strength.

Also Full towers and server cases acctualy don't offer all that great of ventilation, they get hotspots and things, go for a nice midtower, like a lanboy 2(but buy two higher CFM fans the ones they have are very quiet but don't move much air)

Personaly i think that case will be just fine, it looks cool to

Electrofreak · 2004-05-17, 01:04 AM

Heh. Well my bad VItter, those timings are my RAM when its run at PC3200. (same as OCZ's PC3200.) I'm no longer running it at PC3500 speeds due to overheat issues because of my lousy heatsink. And yes I know lower numbers are better, I'm a sophomore computer science major in college.

Also, as I said, timings are more important in an AMD system, and PC4000 RAM is kind of pointless because its very difficult to run it 1:1 with your CPU (which yields the best results). Thats why it is better to get PC3500 or something similar, because you can get it to run 1:1 with your CPU without having the shitty timings of PC4000. Also, dunno if you know, but OCZ has a HISTORY that is very splotchy. They have been caught in the past making some very questionable business practices... most comp builders don't take ethics into account, but it IS something to note. Also, Kingston has some of the most stable gaming RAM you can get... so thats why I go with them (my nForce 3 150 is picky about RAM). If you swear by OCZ, fine, but I am more than happy with my Kingston.

As for my case, I'm not a moron, I've been building computers for years. I know what is the best value and so on and so forth. I bought my case for $150 because I wanted a full-tower server rackmount with a temperature LCD display, 500w PSU and side window. I am aware of the fact that I could get a tower that is just as FUNCTIONAL for $50 less. But that doesn't mean I spent $50 just on a side window fan, I liked a lot of the other features of the case. Besides, a side fan is nice to have blowing on my 9800 PRO, and I like to have the window so I can peek inside my baby

It all depends on your needs, and what you think is worth it. Some people (like you apparently) don't think the extra $50 is worth it. However, I do.

As for aluminum scratching? I have my case on the floor near my feet, and it doesn't have a single scratch. I mean if you are putting it in the middle of your floor and have a habit of running around in steel-toe boots, or doing construction work in the vicinity of it, by all means, get a steel case, but for the typical sock-clad gamer, aluminum works fine

Rbstr man, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the full-tower server thing too... I've seen several articles that show that these big server towers can be quite awesome for cooling (and thats why I picked my case). If you have some articles that indicate otherwise, send me some links, I'd be interested to read 'em. I've always been of the impression that the smaller cases give the heat less room to dissipate, and can be worse for cooling...

Biohazzard56 · 2004-05-17, 01:20 AM

Whats a good case for this System? Im trying to stay under 100 for the case with good cooling and fans included.

Daleon · 2004-05-17, 10:17 AM

Lol, good argument! This is why forums are so much fun.

Ok just to get the case discussion over. Bio check this case:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduc...156-135&depa=0

Its got a 420 watt power supply and looks about the same as the original case you looked at. For $52 you can't beat it, period. Plus its from newegg, so you can combine some shipping and save more. Reviews on it are solid, ps looks to hold up decently, just don't put in any GF6 boards in it.

Corsair XMS PC3500C2 platinum I have does 2-2-2-5 1T at up to 225 mhz and memtest86 stable.

As for you Bio, there is always something better if your willing to spend more. What you need to decide is what is your HARD cap on spending on ram. Thats where getting a good case/ps for something like $52 helps out. Allows you to funnel that extra money into better ram, cpu, video, etc. What you picked out for $200 there is nothing wrong with it at all. For $50 you can get better, for $50 you can even better, and never stops.

Vitter · 2004-05-17, 12:25 PM

I have to agree with Electro on the full tower cases Rbstr. The only "hotspot" i've ever heard of from a full tower case comes is at the very top of the case behind the power supply. Everywhere else gets excellent cooling, especially if you have a side fan (as electro stated) to blow on your MB slots.

The Antec case that both Electro and I suggested has FIVE fan slots. You've got 2 fans blowing air in the bottom front, 2 blowing out in the back, and 1 blowing in on the side.

That not enough air for you? Then you can do as I did and get a Thermalright copper heatsink with a 120mm Vantec "Tornado" fan (better get a fan controller) with, of course, Artic Silver 5. That puppy is guaranteed to move ALL the air you will EVER want to move.

The result? I have a steel full tower case with an overclocked 2.8 GHz P4C that is now running at 1000 FSB (which is 1:1 with my OCZ DDR500 PC4000 [thank you very much Electro]) with a 256mb Radeon 9800 Pro. All of that, and guess what? It has NEVER gotten over 35c, even when i'm running CnC Generals and Star Wars Galaxies at the SAME TIME.

So yeah, poo on your stupid alluminum. Poo all over it!

[EDIT] And if you really hate that "hotspot" behind the PSU, feel free to devel a hole in and add a 80mm fan to whisk it away

Electro, i was being stupid about the case. I apologize. I have to put up with my brother in law wanting to spend 150-200 bucks on a case with diodes and windows and god knows what else for his "gaming machine" when he's got a fuking 1.8GHz processor and a GeForce 3. I won't even get into the memory. It's a knee jerk reaction now to bash any case I see over $100 (after PS added).

If the extra $50 was really for stuff like cable sleeves, fan controller, etc - then right on man, that's money well spent. I just can't stand paying tons for a case with a "pimped out" lighting system.

As for the memory companies, i still stick with OCZ being the best i've EVER had the joy of working with. I'll look up their (as you put it) "splotchy" business decisions, but I doubt i'll find anything that will make me want to give up a company which is providing me with the BEST memory chips at LOWER prices than it's competitors.

Vitter · 2004-05-17, 12:43 PM

As for getting a fan controller with a temperature monitor... pffft.

Do a good job in building your PC and putting in an adequate cooling system and you won't need it once. Simply get Mother Board Monitor and have it display the temperature of your system. It will measure the case, CPU, and an extra sensor if you have one.

The only thing I will ever suggest getting is a $20 fan controller. The Vantex "Nexus" controller is perfect. See it here: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...999-502&depa=1

Electrofreak · 2004-05-17, 01:18 PM

Hey, I'm a sucker for flashy stuff

But yeah, I also wanted the temp sensor diodes just to play around with, and I like the fan controllers and whatnot, not to mention it included a 500w PSU which wasn't an ANTEC (which are the best as you stated) but still is pretty nice. As you can see in my sig, I have some pretty nice gear in my system and I love to be able to peer inside every now and then and gaze upon the beautiful machinery within... (ok YES Im a dork lol...). I hear ya on the case thing though... I know people who have also made it their priority to get a pimpin case when their components are severely lacking.

[sarcasm]Yeah that window is REAL nice to show off your Pentium 3...[/sarcasm]

Damn noobs.

Having a case with a blowhole fan is also nice to deal with that hotspot up near the PSU, though, its not really that big of an issue because most components up there aren't too heat-sensitive.

Right now, I'm building a system for my bro out of a 2.4 Celeron and 512 meg PC3200 which will soon be acquiring from Rbstr

as well as a 9600 PRO. Not exactly the most pimping system, but I cannot afford to spend piles of money on the kid. This is really kinda a b-day present for him, and all I've had to do is spend $170 on it because other than the 2 items I'm getting from Rbstr (which is really a trade, I bought him a 2.8 P4, hes giving me the memory and celeron, as well as a couple case fans). I'm throwing it into a nice ANTEC case (they really do make great cases for cooling, not the best lookers but great for functionality).

Currently the poor kid is trying to game on a 1.3 Ghz P4 with 126 mb RDRAM and a Radeon 7000.

At least now he will be able to play PlanetSide and other games somewhat decently!

Edit-Vitter, I think you misunderstand, my case has a backlit LCD readout on the front of the case, which is connected to 2 temp diodes u can put wherever. I have one under the heatsink of my GPU, and one stuck onto my CPU heatsink right up next to the die (but not between the CPU and heatsink!). Its kinda cool, I mean I have to mentally add a few degrees to estimate the correct temperature (I usually add 10 C to what my CPU heatsink reads, because thats approximately what the temperature difference is between it and the die) and I usually add like 5 C to my GPU heatsink temp) its really just there for that "safe feeling" it gives me. I do a lot of OCing and benchmarking and messing around so it's nice to have my approximate CPU temperature available "at-a-glance" (43 C... +10 = about 53 C... ok, I'm not in the redzone yet... MORE VOLTAGE! :P).

Also the case has 3 built-in fan speed controllers, which I usually leave cranked all the way up when I'm gaming (I usually play with headphones on so noise isn't an issue). When I'm just internet browsing I usually crank them down. I have one controller knob set to my "vertical airflow" (Side and blowhole fan speeds), one to my "horizontal airflow" (front and back fan speeds) and one knob controls the speed of my PSU fan.
Love having the level of control it provides me. Its also nice because in the winter my father is a bit stingy on heating, so the house is like 55 degrees F (frickin cold!). That time of year I can usually game just fine with my fans down all the way lol, (granted, I'm usually wearing about 4 sweaters myself). Towards summer though (again, my father says that AC hurts our power bill

) so I have to crank those fans all the way up, and even drop my OC a little bit. This is why I'm really dying to get a nice new heatsink... ::looks longingly at the Thermaltake PIPE-101::

^Wow... long post... kudos to anyone who actually reads all of it

Its so sad... I could talk computers all day...

Biohazzard56 · 2004-05-17, 05:26 PM

Will that case the delion posted work?

I need links for case, and fan contollers.