Common Pool Machine Gun

Cadaverous_Fly · 2004-07-20, 07:58 PM

When you think about it all the empires even with all their empire specific weaponry have basically most of the same crap. They all have an empire specific assault rifle, they all have an empire specific pistol and knife, and they all have an empire specific anti tank weapon. And while i know that these vary greatly in the field they all serve the same tactical purpose.

However where it differs is in their special weapons. The NC has the Jackhammer (super cool shotgun) the TR has the Chaingun, and the VS has the Lasher or is it the Pulsar i am having a brain fart right now so please forgive me. But anyway in the common pool there is a shotgun (sweeper) and there is a Lasher/Pular equivalent (grenade launcher... sort of or maybe rocklet (Thumper)) However there is no equivalent to a chaingun. One thing that is very important in an army using modern tactics like planetside it to have a heavy long to medium range anti infantry support weapon i.e. a machine gun. So heres my idea what if they put in a common pool machine gun just like one of the 20 mm guns off the galaxy (think M60) and make it serve to purpose of a heavy support weapon while not making the chaingun obsolete. This could be done by beefing out the chaingun a wee bit making it either more accurate or more powerful.

So heres my idea please comment on it and tell me what you think.

Vis Armata · 2004-07-20, 08:36 PM

How about a deployable-only, three cert-point "Ultra Heavy Assault" certification starting with an immobile version of the Harasser 12mm - the three barrel rotating number on top.

When deployed, this 12mm gun would be like a vehicle, in that a gunner pushes "G" and uses the gun (animation included). A "trunk" could be added for another player to add ammo on the fly which is again accessed with "G". The "trunk" would only be big enough for one box, which makes the reloader more effective. I suppose that when the person is using the gun, the gunner and the gun are essentially one hitbox for simplicity.

Eventually, the empires can diverge from the 12mm (railgun for NC, 15mm static gun for TR and a continuous beam weapon for VS? I don't know...its all I could come up with quickly).

Cadaverous_Fly · 2004-07-20, 08:39 PM

I like the idea maybe the way you could balance it so it doesn't take over the chaingun is to make it deployable and make it have 2 people to man it. One to carry the gun and his own personal assets and medical gear and one to carry the ammo which would be very heavy. And also make it deployable. And i don't think we need to make empire specific versions of this because the TR already has one its just that thier special weapon is the only one without a common pool equivalent.

JetRaiden · 2004-07-20, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Vis Armata

How about a deployable-only, three cert-point "Ultra Heavy Assault" certification starting with an immobile version of the Harasser 12mm - the three barrel rotating number on top.

When deployed, this 12mm gun would be like a vehicle, in that a gunner pushes "G" and uses the gun (animation included). A "trunk" could be added for another player to add ammo on the fly which is again accessed with "G". The "trunk" would only be big enough for one box, which makes the reloader more effective. I suppose that when the person is using the gun, the gunner and the gun are essentially one hitbox for simplicity.

Eventually, the empires can diverge from the 12mm (railgun for NC, 15mm static gun for TR and a continuous beam weapon for VS? I don't know...its all I could come up with quickly).

it would probably have to be more powerful then the 12mm. For completely exposing yourself for an extended period of time, you should be packing a little more power. Imagine the vulnerablity to snipers. The trunk concept is good, but it shouldnt feel like youre just manning some kind of mod from a vechile in PS.

Meursault00 · 2004-07-20, 09:24 PM

Any deployable that involved the use of a player would be far too vulnerable to sniper fire. Users would be killed before they fired a single shot.

That is unless you protected the user somehow.

But then SA (or AV) would be able to take them out easily.

It might work indoors though, but then in that case it hardly merits requiring extra certifications for it.

JakeLogan · 2004-07-20, 09:25 PM

I'm sorry to say I don't like it. The Devs already took away one of the TR's unique weapon systems with the skyguard. TR=rapid fire weapons. if you want a machine gun go get an MCG.

JetRaiden · 2004-07-20, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Meursault00

Any deployable that involved the use of a player would be far too vulnerable to sniper fire. Users would be killed before they fired a single shot.

That is unless you protected the user somehow.

But then SA (or AV) would be able to take them out easily.

It might work indoors though, but then in that case it hardly merits requiring extra certifications for it.

I think they would be extremely effective in courtyards. thing about it. set one up adjacent to a wall, a bunch of enemies come in, you mow down at least a couple of them. as for open field use, such as offensively, from a tower, it wouldnt work as well. o well, all weapons have their roles and opprotunities to be used correctly.

Roswell34 · 2004-07-20, 11:06 PM

Ive had an idea before, Have a New CE deployable mode which lets you "control" a spitfire. But this would be like a short range weapon unless they make it longer than 20m.

Cadaverous_Fly · 2004-07-21, 12:13 AM

I like your input and to prevent total sniper nerfing without making it a god weapon I have an idea that i got from looking at the warthog in one of your guys avatars i think it was raiden. Anyway what if you put a blast shield on the gun. Like on the warthog just in front of the guy so it would deflect most sniper shots. But it could still be punctured at short to medium range or even long range with more powerfull weapons. I mean if you shot at it with a guass from 200 feet away you could blow through it. THis would mean that any sniper that wanted to take it out would have to flank it or at least move into a new position so that it could shoot. And anyway i think it would be a better ambush weapon like in a forest sit by with your squad in the grass around some trees a convoy comes buy WHAM! I'd like to see a sniper pick that off.

{edit}: oh wait i forgot apparently in the future the idea of camoflauge is not an issue so everyone wears bright pastel colors and the better you get the brighter you get! Oh and most of the grass on auraxis seems to be mown to the heght of a golfing green.

Meursault00 · 2004-07-21, 12:38 AM

But remember that in sniping, you only need one body part exposed for the shot to make contact. A hit to the leg is the same as a hit to the head.

I guess in that case the shield would have to be pretty large, and then there would only be like a slit for the gunner to view through.

I like the idea of a remotely controlled deployable. Like a remote controlled spitfire.

Vis Armata · 2004-07-21, 01:00 AM

Well, anything with the properties of a vehicle in this game means that a player essentially "becomes" the vehicle - you can't actually hit a passenger in a Harasser, for instance (find a previous "Ask the Devs" for this tidbit). So the gun itself can have some armored shield for aesthetics, but that's only to signify that the user is tied to the gun while the person is using it. In reality, their armor would be tied to the gun's armor value, like any other vehicle.

In that case, I would suggest an armor rating of 300 or so...enough for 2-3 AV rounds to take it out. I suggested the 12mm caliber because it is effective against infantry, fairly accurate but not too threatening toward heavier vehicles. A 20mm version might be considered later down the road for anti-vehiclular work.

I guess the problem would be deploying a vehicle from a rifle slot...

Cadaverous_Fly · 2004-07-21, 01:01 AM

And you know come to think of it they should add body part specific damage before they add some big f**king robots to the mix. THe last game not to have area specific damage was in 1996 and it was called quake! Well there was 007 nightfire but that was a crime against humanity so we shant speak of it here.

Incompetent · 2004-07-21, 01:16 AM

Any deployable that involved the use of a player would be far too vulnerable to sniper fire. Users would be killed before they fired a single shot.

If it was a 12mm, with a harrassers COF, it would probably outsnipe most snipers if the guy used even the tiniest bit of common sense placing it.

EarlyDawn · 2004-07-21, 01:36 AM

I'd actually be more in favor of getting rid of HA as it currently stands and replacing it with this idea, heavy squad support weapons.

TR would get a fast firing supression machinegun, NC would get some kind of medium-low ROF explosive rifle, and the VS could get an AOE-saturation rifle that does burn damage.

All of them would have some kind of bipod or otherwise deployed mode (thinking SAW or RPK in America's Army), but could be fired at an accuracy disadvantage while standing / moving. (Obviously hugely inaccurate if moving). Then, as suggested, we could have a deployable heavy machinegun, M60 style.

Good ideas.

Meursault00 · 2004-07-21, 02:30 AM

There are a lot of snipers in PS, too many you could say.

Supposing that the user actualy takes damage, and not the weapon, the user will still die. The weapon is deployable, it is static. When facing down snipers, this is a big no no.

Because it is static, people everywhere view it as an easy target. With everyone trying to destroy the deployable (and its user) the user becomes distracted by the ammount of available targets, and thus, with the damage he/she is taking, along with sniper fire, the user will inevitably die.

Oh and let's not forget our vehicles. Rocket spam. Mags, Vans, and Prowlers roaming the battlefield. Even a lighting or an assault buggy.

These things are targets for everything, not only snipers.

Immobile:easy kill

It doesn't matter what you're in, if you dont move, you will die. Snipers who don't move after being shot or spotted die. Cloakers who don't move after being shot at die. Tanks that don't move after being hit by AV die. Your average grunt will die if they do not move. MAXes too will die if they do not move (of course, with their increased armor, they have the ability to stay out longer than your average grunt can).

I often see AV users standing still in the middle of a battle. Easy sniping targets, and I take them. Grunts who crouch with HA in the forest also die. MAXes that stay in one spot too long get a deci up their ass. People repairing or healing also get sniped. If you don't move, you will get sniped or mauled.

That is probably why the devs made the HA weapons how they are right now. Mobile. The Lasher is best used when running around. As is the MCG and the JH.