[RANT]Antiwar directors need not read this thread

[AztecWarrior]

NOTE: To illustrate a point, this thread does make use of Nazi imagery including Swastikas, double runes, etc. I am not a Nazi and do not support their views. If you are offended or your government has banned such imagery, please do not read on.

First off, let's set two things clear.

1: I don't care if you are anti-war, pro-war, for some wars, for global nuclear mass suicide, whatever. I may disagree but I will always respect your opinion and your basis for it. I may want to kill someone, but I don't know if I could.

2: I don't care if you are right-wing, left-wing, up, or down. However, I am appalled when people resort to propaganda and subliminal messaging to spread opinion.

Those points aside, let us examine Starship Troopers, which I had the misfortune to see while waiiting for my dad to activate a WoW trial account.

I just wanted to see some bugs blow up. I will admit, the concept behind the movie is great. The special effects are stellar. However, my praise ends there.

First off, the movie treats the human government in place like a bunch of Nazis. Propaganda such as "Service Guarantees Citizenship" and "Join Now!" during the news broadcasts is a mockery of military recruiters. Then I saw the uniforms.

For reference, and no offense to any ****, Slavs, or other victims of the Holocaust, here is the uniform of Deputy Fuhrer Rudolf Hess:



This is the image of the dress uniform of the Mobile Infantry:



All that's missing is a tie to look like a greyed version of that uniform, and in a funeral scene, the protagonists do don ties.

Here is the SS double lightning bolt badge:



Here are some of the badges worn by the Mobile Infantry:



Here is the uniform of the SS:



Here is the uniform of the Fleet:


This gets worse as at the end of the movie, three high-ranking officers appear with full dress uniform and black trenchcoats.

I think that nothing really else needs to be shown on this topic.

Then, as if calling the military a bunch of straight arm saulters wasn't enough, the infamous co-ed shower scene, pre-battle scenes, etc. show our troops as a bunch of kids who want to kill everything, who think it's all just a game, a la Apocalypse Now- though I did like that movie. They get tatooed, there is no discipline, etc.

So please...hold the bullshit when making movies. Add your political commentary elsewhere.

[JetRaiden]

very nice research, aztec.


However Starship Troopers is such a shitty movie I doubt anyone could recall noticing that.

But I agree with you 100%, producers are fucking dumbasses for showing their political views subliminally in their movies. Keep your opinions to yourself, and focus more on making a quality film.

[starbum]

Allow me to quote a rather good explaination of why the universe was created the way it was in Starship Troopers:
"A good portion of Heinlein's reflections are polemical, and yield the author the none-too-praiseworthy labels of "fascist" and "militarist," because in the future he creates, people acquire the right to vote only after two years of voluntary service to the State. That service can be as much civil as military. Beneath it all, what Heinlein seems to propose is a meritocracy formed by people who, at some point in their lives, sacrificed their own interests in favor of society as a whole. As with many North American conservatives, Heinlein (who died in 1988) was disquieted by the increasingly predominant view that the individual is benefitted by the State-maintained social organization without making a major pledge to society in return. In his opinion, those who made that sacrifice would have a greater sense of responsibility in electing their governing officials and charging them with better performance from the State. Those who did not accept that order of things would not be discriminated against, exactly (Johnny's family, composed of non-citizens, was quite rich, to the point that his father considered citizenship a dispensible luxury), but rather, left outside the centers of decisionmaking."

Very nazi indeed. </sarcasm>

Dont judge a book by its cover or uniform. The book was awesome. The movie looked awesome. Read the book and learn why things were potrayed the way they where - not judge the storyline based on a uniform. Lets leave it at that.

[OfaLoaf]

The movie was so-so. The book was entertaining, but I disagreed with the philosophies in it, and the reason why that form of government was made in the first place.

[AztecWarrior]

Originally Posted by starbum

Allow me to quote a rather good explaination of why the universe was created the way it was in Starship Troopers:
"A good portion of Heinlein's reflections are polemical, and yield the author the none-too-praiseworthy labels of "fascist" and "militarist," because in the future he creates, people acquire the right to vote only after two years of voluntary service to the State. That service can be as much civil as military. Beneath it all, what Heinlein seems to propose is a meritocracy formed by people who, at some point in their lives, sacrificed their own interests in favor of society as a whole. As with many North American conservatives, Heinlein (who died in 1988) was disquieted by the increasingly predominant view that the individual is benefitted by the State-maintained social organization without making a major pledge to society in return. In his opinion, those who made that sacrifice would have a greater sense of responsibility in electing their governing officials and charging them with better performance from the State. Those who did not accept that order of things would not be discriminated against, exactly (Johnny's family, composed of non-citizens, was quite rich, to the point that his father considered citizenship a dispensible luxury), but rather, left outside the centers of decisionmaking."

Very nazi indeed. </sarcasm>

Dont judge a book by its cover or uniform. The book was awesome. The movie looked awesome. Read the book and learn why things were potrayed the way they where - not judge the storyline based on a uniform. Lets leave it at that.

Great, but Heinlein had little say in this movie.

The movie was directed by Paul Verhoeven, and the screenplay was done by Edward Neumeier. In fact, he appears nowhere in the credits but with the title of "Story":

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&id...f=cast&intl=us

That may be true about the book, starbum, but it's the movie I am talking about. Furthermore, although I will take this opinion at face value, one Yahoo! user said that the book (which I have not read, hence the face value judgement) was completely disregarded in the making of the movie and elements such as military service required for citizenship were added on to fascism, etc.:

http://movies.yahoo.com/mvc/dfrv?mid...Kn9pkduA2kvA--

[OfaLoaf]

In the book, it is required to have service in the military before you can vote. You can do everything but vote and hold office without military service.
Also, some variations of the soldiers battlesuits shoot small nuclear weapons. But that's not the point.

[Hamma]

This is why movies suck now, because people over analyze them

[AztecWarrior]

I agree that I think too much, but the point still stands: directors need to stop including sublime social critique in their films.

[Pilgrim]

But the Book is a social critique. To not put any of the more fascist elements into the movie would do even more of a disservice to the book then was allready done.

I don't think there was any suvtle social critique here at all. The book is about a Fascist Military state, so the movie uses easily recocnized fascist symbols!

And even if that were not true, I can show you a side by side of a Hitler Youth uniform and an early Boy scout uniform and make all the same comparisons that you have above!

OMG The boy Scouts are trying to build the fourth reich!!!! OMG!!!!

[Fehronozova]

OMG The boy Scouts are trying to build the fourth reich!!!! OMG!!!!

Neeiiiinnn!

[MrPaul]

Originally Posted by AztecWarrior

I agree that I think too much, but the point still stands: directors need to stop including sublime social critique in their films.

Sorry that is just screaming at me.

Anyway, to be honest the first couple of unifroms you compare, in my opinion, look nothing alike..

As Hamma said, people over analyze things. I do language, you do films.

[Headrattle]

A: Yes it was a shitty movie.
B: Yeah I noticed that when I saw it as well. It was as if the costume designer also designed cloths for the Third Reich.
C: Given that the Director is the same director of Showgirls, Basic Instinct, and Hollow Man, I would have to say that he is a threat to the American way of Life and should be hunted down and killed like every other terrorist.

[OfaLoaf]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

OMG The boy Scouts are trying to build the fourth reich!!!! OMG!!!!

We haven't done anything to the ****! You can't prove a thing!

[Ridetehlightnin]

Starship Troopers is a brilliant film. I didn't notice anything you said, I was too distracted with the gorieness/action/effects of the film. Average people watch films for those qualitys, and disregard any connections/relationships to reallife in the films.

Pausing Starship troopers at the naked parts for teh win!

[Baneblade]

I actually liked the movie, it isnt far fetched either.