OS math

[Majik]

So, I was sitting here pretending to do tech support, but actually thinking about the OS vs AMS problem lately. The biggest answer people give is "Well the OS takes 3 hours and the AMS has a 5 minute timer". So I did some math.

It turns out that in order for one side to deliver an OS every 5 minutes all day long there would need to be 36 (every 5 minutes for 3 hours) CR4+ on the cont. So on a poplocked cont that would be approx 1 in 4 soldiers. Now I don't know where to pull the specifics on how many players are CR4+ already, but that sounds at least like where we are already in the population.

Since according to planetsidestats.net the Emerald VS only has 4% of it's population certed in ground support, that means at absolute best there are 5 people on the poplocked cont who can pull an AMS. Now figure only maybe 3 of them actually are pulling them, and one of them will be intercepted by air cav halfway to wherever they are going every time, then theoretically there should be one AMS deployed on the cont somewhere at all times.

Now, whether or not it is where it is most needed is anybodies guess. The one most needed will be the one OSed, and the next one will be the one seen by air cav coming in for most cases. So the guy needed the least will be the one who survives

Food for thought......flame away

[Phaden]

Yes, i can say that NC Emerald also is having this problem. There have been a number of threads on this i think, and it just keeps happening, Deploy and within 5 min get OS'd. Maybe time to kick in Adv merit that makes the AMS have a shield? I know that there was talk of this type of thing before.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Phaden

Yes, i can say that NC Emerald also is having this problem. There have been a number of threads on this i think, and it just keeps happening, Deploy and within 5 min get OS'd. Maybe time to kick in Adv merit that makes the AMS have a shield? I know that there was talk of this type of thing before.

I don't think the answer is to buff the AMS. You can't make it too difficult to destroy when you're not using an OS on it (which does happen a fair bit, as I use a flight BFR to hunt down AMS's fairly often). I think the answer is to rework the way CR is in the game, and remove the abilities like OS and EMP which CR holders have that do not help them lead squads.

[ChewyLSB]

The fact that Orbital Strike is even a CR Ability is ridiculous. Both EMP Strike and Orbital Strike don't help a leader lead, they're just solo abilities. I think that the commander of a squad should give benefits to his squad mates, and nothing else.

[GreyFlcn]

Originally Posted by ChewyLSB

The fact that Orbital Strike is even a CR Ability is ridiculous. Both EMP Strike and Orbital Strike don't help a leader lead, they're just solo abilities. I think that the commander of a squad should give benefits to his squad mates, and nothing else.

Actually, consider OS if you were not allowed to use in in an unhacked enemy SOI.

And if they removed the CR4 OS, and replaced it with some other Leadership centric ability.

[Lonehunter]

The fact that a completely new person to the game can log in and use an OS bu becoming SL disturbs me. It's a reward for people who have played the game.

I've played TR and NC on emerald extensivly, and I must say the one thing TR is good for is spammign AMS, not always but I've seen it numerous times.

[Hamorad]

In reality, you wouldn't OS every time one is pulled.

5 mins for pull, 2 mins for transport, more time to find it.

That would decrease # of OSes needed to about 20-25 or so

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by ChewyLSB

The fact that Orbital Strike is even a CR Ability is ridiculous. Both EMP Strike and Orbital Strike don't help a leader lead, they're just solo abilities. I think that the commander of a squad should give benefits to his squad mates, and nothing else.

Maybe, but I'd prefer if the benefits weren't combat related. I've seen some really excessive ideas for this kind of benefit, like double repair speed, more armor, health, footspeed, etc. It's really out there. Things like faster spawn times, reduced timers on vehicles/MAX armor (very minor, like 15% tops), and that kind of stuff which doesn't actually impact the fights themselves is what I think would be alright.

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

The fact that a completely new person to the game can log in and use an OS bu becoming SL disturbs me. It's a reward for people who have played the game.

I've played the game a long, long time and I'm still CR2. Why? Because I do not enjoy leading. OS isn't a reward for people who've played the game, it's mostly a reward for people who grudgingly grind out CEP, or the very few actual leaders who get it as a perk to what they normally do (and like to do).

But I am now working toward CR3 and beyond specifically because the rewards are so great. Then I will be one of the many, many people who gained a high CR, not to lead, but to get access to fancy new abilities. If I were a bit stupider and a tiny bit less mature, I'd end up one of the morons who spams Global with their useless conversations with other CR5 individuals. Is that really the kind of stuff we want to encourage by tying OS to CR? Recently one of the CSR's made a post regarding the ongoing abuse of Global chat and the steps they will take to try and solve the problem. The fact, though, is that if all these toys weren't tied to CR, we'd have infinitely fewer idiots with a high CR, because these people wouldn't bother grinding CEP to get something that won't help them drop on towers from a Mosquito and run around with HA, or sneak up on people with a Reaver and spam them with missiles.

I don't think anyone wants OS to be a free ability to everyone, but they are putting the wrong prerequisities on it. Why flood the commander pool with retards like me who want nothing to do with leadership, but need to pretend to be a leader to get stuff to help them be Rambo? It doens't make sense. If anything, the CR stuff like EMP and OS should be tied to Merits, not CR.

[KIAsan]

What is the point of the original question? O/S is overpowered because of limits to the number of AMSs? The answer is not muck with the games mechanics, but in that dreaded word, strategy. When is the last time you saw an AMS deploy well away from the base and use a router to teleport troops into/next to the base? Why do folks with an AMS park the thing against a wall, so the bubble extends into the tower/base? Why don't folks preposition an AMS or two prior to the zerg rushing in (so they can sneak them in)? There are lots of times that a well placed AMS will survive the entire assault without being noticed. Another avenue is to understand why support roles are getting more limited. Notice the lack of adv meds, CE, AMS and Gal drivers? It's not just the AMS that suffers from low numbers. Unfortunately, the dev team has focused soley on the FPS kill stats and done nothing for the support roles. Want to really fix this? Then lets get some love to support roles.

Now, if you want to talk just the O/S or other CR capabilities, sure. I, for one, don't like folks who use their O/S only as a kill whore strategy. You know the type, they wait until AFTER the base is overrun. Allow the greatest concentration of enemy in the courtyard, then pull the trigger. I have seen third empire O/Ss done on the courtyard of a cont in a 2-way fight (with that CR-5 being the only one on cont). Of course these examples are done only to kill whore. Now, can the O/S be redesigned? How about making it more like an artillery call. Anyone in your squad can secretly set an O/S point, which allows a CR-4/5 the ability to call down the O/S. Or, make them more inaccurate by using a more refined coordinate system (If you go this route, the timers need to be drastically reduced). Or just limit them to the defending empire (in an unhacked SOI) or any empire out of an SOI.

There are so many ways to tune this ability (and other abilities). Heck, I would be in favor of certs for certain abilities. 2 cert to gain a REK. 1 cert for global, 1 for Reveal, 1 for O/S. Let EMP stay the same. That way, you would force folks to use those 3 extra certs for an ability (I don't use reveal often, so I prob wouldn't cert in it).

Like I said, there are many ways to fine tune this. I just don't like the gut reaction "I don't have it, so lets get rid of it". True, there are abuses to the system (as for any system), so lets think of way to fix abuses and fine tune it.

[GreyFlcn]

Well, an easy way to make them less accurate is to remove the ability to see waypoints when you are in that view setting

Also to start you off at some non-standard zoom sizes

Also would be nice to allow AMS's to survive OS's when they are underneath a large concrete bridge

[Kam]

.

[Jeffey]

It could just be my lack of extensive experience (got PS 2 months ago or so) but I haven't noticed the OSing of AMS's to be that big of a problem. It seems fair, 3 hour timer vs 5 minute timer, which will probably have refreshed by the time they find and OS the thing.

And if some AMS drivers weren't so anxious to park the thing right next to the back door, or in the same old obvious wooded areas near bases, it could take upwards of 30 minutes to find them.

As far as OS in the wrong hands, yes I do agree that OS and EMP are not, by definition, leadership tools, and it could stand to recieve a looksie in a way of granting the ability to more worthy players, or rather, less unworthy players.

[Kam]

You got Planetside 2 months ago? Mind selling it to us?

[Warborn]

They are not going to do a Planetside 2 for a long time, if ever. This game is still making profit, and significant changes can still be made to improve it through expansions and patches. The idea that SOE is going to cancel it's still profitable and workable game here and spend millions on something that will do the same thing as the last game, "but better", is pretty unrealistic. Even the engine can be improved and expanded upon through expansions, so there's really no good reason for them to abandon all the work they've done on Planetside 1 and start over.

[Baneblade]

millions? Hehe, not many games cost millions.

I personally only got CR5 when I started my outfit...a loong time ago. I was CR2 for 6 months prior.