Reducing downtime

DviddLeff · 2011-02-25, 11:44 AM

Smed has stated that he thought Sancs slowed the game down too much.

I disagree and feel that the sancs have significant value being the one safe place in the game world where you can meet up with your outfit to prepare for an assault.

Also reading the Longgame Blog he complains about finding a fight and just getting killed when you do eventually make it. Those reading this will likely disagree; yesterday it took me two minutes to log on and meet up with my squad but yes I have a Mossie certed to do just that. Even if I didn't I could still wait on the HART for a couple of minutes and again join them in under 5 minutes.

However, there is a lot of downtime in PS, so how can it be reduced?

Few thoughts and ideas (certainly not all my own):

Reduce base hacks to 10 minutes
Allow players to respawn at the squad home base from anywhere, even if they have not visited it.
Allow advanced medics to deploy spawn points in the field, without requiring an AMS to increase spawn options for all players (probably closer to the fight).
Allow players to choose their respawn point while still remaining on the ground to be revived, just in case. Also have the respawn timer count down while they choose.
Allow players to respawn in a Sunderer or parked Galaxy if there are free passenger slot available.
Allow players to choose a favourite load out to spawn with (also reduced the effect of spawn campers).

Firefly · 2011-02-25, 11:56 AM

I guess people don't understand the concept of "timely". If someone is spending too much time in Sanctuary, then he/she needs to light a fire under the collective ass of his/her outfit mates. And if they're collective slackers, either figure out how to change that, put up with it and shut up, or leave the outfit. It's that simple.

My outfit runs drills to reduce downtime, among other drills to reduce clusterfucks in pre-combat conditions. If I schedule an "outfit night" for 7pm, at 7:15 I expect to be passing through a warpgate on my way to bend Barney over and fuck him in the ass.

Lartnev · 2011-02-25, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Allow advanced medics to deploy spawn points in the field, without requiring an AMS to increase spawn options for all players (probably closer to the fight).

I'd only support this if it required an AMS to be within a certain range.

I like sanctuaries too, it was the closest thing to home and was cool to hang out in once in a while to plan certs, chat in IRC, or whatever.

Combining thoughts with the Galaxy getting a bigger role it would be nice to see a sort of pick-up system for stray soldiers to get them into the fight, or a ferry system where a gal pilot/commander highlights a bus service between two points.

CutterJohn · 2011-02-25, 01:16 PM

I'd totally agree that sanc needed to be streamlined. It was a bit clunky, with little point or purpose. The spawn in, vehicle terminals, VR, etc, could have all been in the HART building easily. A warpgate just down the block(there were a couple horribad warpgate placements for ground vehicles. So much so you'd just go through the teleport to one of the other bases). It should take 15 seconds to go from spawning to in a vehicle/hart and on your way to combat.

Sure, keep a door outside for people to go outside and gather for a raid or something.

Infantry/MAX harts should be instant. I could see vehicle harts as well. Perhaps not the AMS, but the rest should be fine. Those would obviously have a timer.

Not terribly keen on more spawn points. The time you lose when you die is the only downside to death. Would you think that making a faster turnaround for tanks or MAXs is a good idea?

Manitou · 2011-02-25, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

I guess people don't understand the concept of "timely". If someone is spending too much time in Sanctuary, then he/she needs to light a fire under the collective ass of his/her outfit mates. And if they're collective slackers, either figure out how to change that, put up with it and shut up, or leave the outfit. It's that simple.

My outfit runs drills to reduce downtime, among other drills to reduce clusterfucks in pre-combat conditions. If I schedule an "outfit night" for 7pm, at 7:15 I expect to be passing through a warpgate on my way to bend Barney over and fuck him in the ass.

/signed.

DviddLeff · 2011-02-25, 01:37 PM

Added a couple of more ideas.

Firefly I totally agree; 3 of our outfit war matches were delayed by up to an hour because our rivals were not ready... when we had up to 45 guys ready and waiting to go quarter of an hour before the deadline.

Timantium · 2011-02-25, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

However, there is a lot of downtime in PS, so how can it be reduced?

Few thoughts and ideas (certainly not all my own):

Reduce base hacks to 10 minutes Love it
Allow players to respawn at the squad home base from anywhere, even if they have not visited it. Love it
Allow advanced medics to deploy spawn points in the field, without requiring an AMS to increase spawn options for all players (probably closer to the fight). NOT
Allow players to choose their respawn point while still remaining on the ground to be revived, just in case. Also have the respawn timer count down while they choose.NOT
Allow players to respawn in a Sunderer or parked Galaxy if there are free passenger slot available.NOT
Allow players to choose a favourite load out to spawn with (also reduced the effect of spawn campers). Love it

My comments are color coded. Tech=Might

The three I didn't like take too much of the movement in base out of the game. That's not really "downtime" that is transit time. Sitting guarding a hack on an abandoned cont for 15 minutes is downtime (except for the last 3 minutes if they put a hot drop together). It's a choice to wait for a medic or respawn, a choice good players learn to make wisely.

MooK · 2011-02-25, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Smed has stated that he thought Sancs slowed the game down too much.

I disagree and feel that the sancs have significant value being the one safe place in the game world where you can meet up with your outfit to prepare for an assault.

Also reading the Longgame Blog he complains about finding a fight and just getting killed when you do eventually make it. Those reading this will likely disagree; yesterday it took me two minutes to log on and meet up with my squad but yes I have a Mossie certed to do just that. Even if I didn't I could still wait on the HART for a couple of minutes and again join them in under 5 minutes.

However, there is a lot of downtime in PS, so how can it be reduced?

I agree completely. Sanctuaries in their current form are extremely important. There is a lot of potential here, and scrapping the whole idea in favor of reducing downtime, or streamlining the game into some action-packed garbage is a terrible way to go about it. Innovate, make it better, don't just get rid of it.

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Few thoughts and ideas (certainly not all my own):

Reduce base hacks to 10 minutes
Allow players to respawn at the squad home base from anywhere, even if they have not visited it.
Allow advanced medics to deploy spawn points in the field, without requiring an AMS to increase spawn options for all players (probably closer to the fight).
Allow players to choose their respawn point while still remaining on the ground to be revived, just in case. Also have the respawn timer count down while they choose.
Allow players to respawn in a Sunderer or parked Galaxy if there are free passenger slot available.
Allow players to choose a favourite load out to spawn with (also reduced the effect of spawn campers).

I think base hacks at 15 minutes are fine. HARTs at 10 minutes seemed fine to me too. I think AMS' in their current form are fine. They are portable spawning systems, we don't need another way to do it. I really don't think allowing us to spawn inside of vehicles is a good idea. You're effectively reducing the concept of working together to setup a spawn point, giving each other cover fire, and being a cohesive army in favor of faster action.

I believe that we should be allowed to customize our STANDARD load out, but we shouldn't be able to spawn in full gear. The solution to spawn camping? Spawn somewhere else, get geared up, deconstruct and spawn back at the base. Then you can do some damage.

Traak · 2011-02-25, 05:23 PM

I think the pain of having to wait to get back into the action is part of the motivation to do well, and not just mindlessly UT zerg-and-die.

Bags · 2011-02-25, 05:24 PM

Base hacks shouldn't be 15 minutes. That or they need to give a boatload more xp. Sorry, I don't pay $15/mo to sit around in an empty base that MIGHT be contested for 2.5k XP.

DviddLeff · 2011-02-25, 06:49 PM

Especially when single tank kill can earn you that much and more.

Bags · 2011-02-25, 07:01 PM

Interesting idea: More fighting in soi after hack = longer cap time? Up to a max of 15 mins, maybe a minimum of 3 - 5 mins?

If people show up and fight for the base, it has to be held longer. If no one shows up it's a quick cap.

Just an idea.

DviddLeff · 2011-02-25, 07:10 PM

Not sure; for an empire that is trying to organise a re-secure they need to know how long they have to get themselves organised and strike back. If its based around fighting in the SOI after the hack then as they form up and organise the time will shrink, and they miss their chance.

I think 10 minutes is a decent reduction, any shorter and it becomes too hard to counter attack effectively.

Bags · 2011-02-25, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Not sure; for an empire that is trying to organise a re-secure they need to know how long they have to get themselves organised and strike back. If its based around fighting in the SOI after the hack then as they form up and organise the time will shrink, and they miss their chance.

I think 10 minutes is a decent reduction, any shorter and it becomes too hard to counter attack effectively.

I meant more like, hack starts, enemies all removed, hack timer starts 5:00. It gets down to 2:34 as you enter SOI with galaxy / ams / what have you, start fighting at BD / roof terms / CC whatever, timer shoots up to 8:34.

Something like that.

Ten minutes is a good compromise though. Shorter, but still time for a counter attack.

basti · 2011-02-25, 07:24 PM

10 minutes hack? faster respawn mechanics? what?

You guys forgot a very important thing: The flow of combat. If you allow people to spawn quicker and closer to the fights, every single fight will turn into a massive war, and suprise attacks will be harder to pull off. Pushing through a defended base will be even harder than it is now, because the wall of enemys will break even slower. Yea, you have more bodies to throw at it, but how often do people rush in knowing they will be dead before they even reach the next level of the stairs? The faster spawns etc goes, the faster battles will turn into a massive stalemate. And the faster people can relocate, the harder it will be to break those stalemates by backhacking somewher else.
!0 minutes for a hack sounds awesome if you just look at it, but if you remember what that really means, you will understand that it makes resecures of bases hold by the enemy zerg almost impossible. These days, they are hard, but with 5 minutes less time they are pretty much impossible, because you cant clean the entire base in time. To fix this, TTK would need to be faster, speeding the game itself up entierly, and that is a bad thing.
The faster stuff goes, the more stress you end up having. And only few people want to be stressed by a game without good downtimes. Most people these days enjoy slacking for a few minutes after a outstanding base battle. They have 15 minutes time to go pee, grab som food, do whatever. If you speed the game speed up, you may end up taking away that possibilty. Thos who dont take a short break will enjoy, but those who do take a short break will be pissed. And alot of people take the short break.

With that in mind, i would support everything that gets people to the battle after they logged in. Being able to drop from the hart every few secs for example. Just to allow you to get somewhere quickly. But speeding everything up is a big no go. Planetside has a fine balance with that stuff, that balance should stay, because getting it right is propably the hardest challenge for MMOFPS games.