Making the bang bus more popular

ShowNoMercy · 2011-07-28, 07:59 PM

So I have been seeing a lot of talk about the galaxy and what it's potential applications/limitations in PS2 will be. For the record I think the gal should stay as is with slight variations for integration with the skill tree.

The Problem

The bang bus had very little usage in PS1 compared to the galaxy, here are the main times I witnessed it's usage over a gal or other vehicles.

- When an outfit wanted to air drop a target and didnt have an EMP ready. Simply load up a bang bus into a loadie and drop it over a base - free emp. (this only worked later in the game).

- When on cont needing to transport people to a base close by, in many cases this was because tank drivers were not abundantly available or there was no tech.

- As one man suicide vehicles for clearing CE (this was before and after the emp addition)(also mostly on bridges).

As you know, the bang bus was never the best choice, it was simply convenient. One of the things many outfit discovered was that with an experienced group of players even the gal was not the best choice, since it is a large target that screams "OS me". By using mossies to hot drop then hacking out equipment, Maxes could be obtained on sight and the OS target was avoided. Additionally, 12 mossies over a base can virtually take over the skies in most cases.

So those two methods combined are considered the most efficient way to get troops on target. The bang bus however, was extremely slow, had to deal with ground obstacles, and was a huge target (literally and figuratively). Additionally, the bang bus was best at attacking courtyards, but the range on its weapons was horrible since they were so high up, not to mentioned it got jammed almost immediately. So why use a bang bus? the answer - dont. And people didn't for the most part.

The Solution

The question I keep asking myself when imagining changes for the bang bus is "why use it over a gal". Both serve essentially the same roll of transporting relatively large amounts of troops that are heavily armed. The gal just happens to win in all categories (speed, survivability, and precision), that is to say it gets to the target faster, has a better chance of making it, and can put the troops where is wants more effectively.

I say merge the bang bus with the router, make it so once the bang bus gets within a certain range it can drop troops off to a router pad that has been pre-deployed. The range on the pad would be short enough to where the bus would have to be in the CY to deploy into the base (to make a PS1 comparison). By doing so it still loses in the speed and survivability categories, but wins in the precision category. Also, a 4th category is added, "stealth". A gal can be seen a mile away and you can see where the troops drop (or guess), but a bang bus driving up and offloading to a pad would make the enemy unsure of where the troops landed. That would give it an advantage over the gal, the only issue is that someone would need to pre-deploy a pad for them (which isnt always easy).

Some ideas to reduce OP nature of proposal:

- Indication of when troops leave the transport (im thinking beam of light exiting the top or some shit like that) couple that with a possible directional indication.

- Inability for multiple bang buses to offload to 1 pad in a short period of time.

- Cloaker class unable to deploy pad

- Pad takes time to deploy and can be set to empire or squad/outfit only.

- Range of pad to bang bus relatively small

- unable to be transported in a loadie

Think about it:

how cool would it be to try and get a small group of 3-5 into a base then deploy a pad and hold it for a minute at which point 10-12 guys instantly pop in and re-enforce the position.

or deploying it in a base a minute before cap for quick extraction. This would make the bang bus the premier vehicle for inserting and removing soldier. The galaxy would still be better at moving troops quickly over long distances and would be much better for dropping into areas that are heavily defended.

Please offer constructive criticism, undoubtedly someone will simply post "thats dumb". If you feel it is a dumb idea state why, and above all else list some ways to increase the bang bus's usage.

Brusi · 2011-07-28, 08:14 PM

I think with the new upgradeable vehicles system, ground transport might become more viable through player creativity.

Imagine how much more viable it would be as transport with say a AA flack cannons mounted on top or moderate increase to top speed?

Rbstr · 2011-07-28, 08:22 PM

I felt it was slow and not very powerful as a vehicle. It was also ridiculously huge.

Considering maxes could basically just run places, there was very little reason for it over a deliverer. Especially when so many people have vehicle certs.

NapalmEnima · 2011-07-28, 08:23 PM

IIRC, the devs have already stated that you'll be able to spawn on bang busses. Presumably it'll be in some way inferior (as far as spawning goes) to a dedicated AMS-type vehicle. Maybe similar to squad spawns in that you arrive in a drop pod, and there is a cooldown (though you'd imagine it'd be noticeably shorter than the squad leader spawn cooldown). Maybe has its own spawn tube and equipment terminal.

I've also noticed that they're more popular now that they are more heavily armed, though I have yet to see the weapons fully crewed.

I'm tellin ya: Gun Ports. Give the passengers something to do, even if it isn't particularly effective, instead of just watching.

It'd also be cool to have some Command & Control gear in bases and larger vehicles that would improve a squad/platoon/outfit leaders abilities in some way.

All those control panels that don't actually do anything in PS's current bases? Yeah those. Make'em Do Stuff.

Rbstr · 2011-07-28, 08:32 PM

Part of the way to get rid of it's disposable nature (at least how i've witnessed it recently) would be to make it more of a decent combatant with only 2 people in it while having the transport slots.

Make it a bit more anti-infantry and set up a rock/paper/scissors of tanks/infantry/vehicles a bit stronger than it is now.

Soothsayer · 2011-07-28, 10:00 PM

Bang bus at release was much faster and decent for sitting back and pelting a CY, fairly fun and lots of survivability. That is to say, it was fun enough to do some runs with it but I would never have considered it an essential vehicle.

Then they removed most of the speed and it became not fun. Where I could originally weave through fairly thick forests at a good clip, it became impossible with the crappy handling that was later introduced.

I don't know that it needs a function role, I'd like to see it rank lower in damage than a mbt but higher in armour. EMP optional.

As for the router idea, I think there are too many rules. Needs to be balanced in a simple and straightforward method. I'm sure it would open up new depth of play, but the restrictions kill the value of the idea for me.

kaffis · 2011-07-28, 11:39 PM

Allow it to transport 1 or 2 more MAXes (but each extra MAX transported decreases REXO capacity by 1), and make the MAXes in semi-open sockets that let them shoot their own weapons (and ammo) as "gunners."

Use resource scarcity and requirements to balance ground transport with galaxies and dedicated 1-2 man combat vehicles (mosquitoes, reavers, MBTs, lightnings) and thus keep ground transports as the most cost-efficient way to get X number of people from point A to point B, where, say, X > 4. Make sure that ground transport is suitably fast, and that new spawning mechanisms (spawn on squaddie, spawn on galaxy, and, for that matter, AMS) don't simply obviate the need for transport the majority of the time.

Give ground transports enough armor that they're not considered free kills and rolling coffins. Remember, a full Sundy is 10 times as tempting a target as a Lightning, and is going to draw fire for that reason even if it's less of an (immediate) threat.

Aside from those, I don't have much more input, except to say that, as a long-time bus driver, I support any and all efforts to make people want to climb aboard when I pull one.

ShowNoMercy · 2011-07-29, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by NapalmEnima

IIRC, the devs have already stated that you'll be able to spawn on bang busses. Presumably it'll be in some way inferior (as far as spawning goes) to a dedicated AMS-type vehicle. Maybe similar to squad spawns in that you arrive in a drop pod, and there is a cooldown (though you'd imagine it'd be noticeably shorter than the squad leader spawn cooldown). Maybe has its own spawn tube and equipment terminal.

I've also noticed that they're more popular now that they are more heavily armed, though I have yet to see the weapons fully crewed.

I'm tellin ya: Gun Ports. Give the passengers something to do, even if it isn't particularly effective, instead of just watching.

It'd also be cool to have some Command & Control gear in bases and larger vehicles that would improve a squad/platoon/outfit leaders abilities in some way.

All those control panels that don't actually do anything in PS's current bases? Yeah those. Make'em Do Stuff.

Where did you hear that they were making it a spawn point? i hadn't heard that before. I don't understand why they would do that since it kinda defeats the purpose of transporting people as it would automatically transport people to it as opposed to in it.

When talking about making PS2 more popular and accelerating game play, occupying the time people spend sitting in a transport with something to do would be very helpful. One way to do such is to make gals and bang buses have open cabin designs. The cargo bay door drops and people physically walk in instead of hitting "E" to load. By doing so you open many doors for time occupying activity, some ideas include:

Navigation Console - player sitting here can overlay a path for the driver to follow, gets rid of "youre going the wrong way"

Targeting Console - player sitting here can highlight target for gunners to shot at, gets rid of "every shoot at that"

Communication Console - player sitting here interacts with other vehicles to download or upload nav and targeting information

Gun ports - players not using turrets can shoot their weapons out of the vehicle, time occupying but not very effective since you will be shooting a moving target while moving.

Equipment term or trunk access - allows players to exchange gear or replenish ammo.

Healing - since its an open cabin, medics can attend to the wounded on the go

Finally, your comment about making panels in bases do stuff, I agree. The wall turrets should have been remote controlled from inside the base until they were destroyed. Similarly, cameras could be setup around the base that could be displayed inside. This "nerve center" would be a primary target when entering a base, much like the tubes or gen is in PS1.

Thoreaux · 2011-07-29, 01:00 AM

Integrating a router function into the Bang-Bus is a possibility, but... I don't like it. I can't really articulate a good reason other than, "it doesn't fit the role".

The Sunderer does need a pretty radical change IMO. It is supposed to be a gate-crasher, yes? So then enhance its ability to crash gates. Instead of an emp ability, give it straight-up invulnerability. Give it an uber-shield that is active for 10 (or so) seconds, through which it cannot be harmed. Give it the ability to really ram its way through just about anything by sheer mass. Make it so that when enemies see one coming they shit themselves.

Also, double its carrying capacity (it's frackin huge ffs) and make it pricey. It needs to be both uncommon, and potent enough to single handedly bust down the front door. For bonus points, give it the ability to auto-hack nearby doors so its passengers can charge straight in.

Then people would use it.

CutterJohn · 2011-07-29, 01:27 AM

A gate crasher needs a method of launching people off the ground so they don't immediately die on egress, or something to protect them while they make for the door, because as you unstealthily barrel past the lines, you will be noticed, and followed.

A teleport, a pod launcher, or a large bubble shield that is big enough you can park and still have room to run into a door while inside it.

It would also be wise to stop considering it a transport vehicle, outside those specific circumstances. Considering the way the class system works, hitching a ride will be the least of peoples worries.

Valdae · 2011-07-29, 03:00 AM

The bang bus needs more armor, or a higher top speed.

But honestly, the best suggestion for making it popular is increase the seating capacity to something higher than a Galaxy. Like 20 or so. People shouldn't need to have a vehicle cert to get around during the game.

ECM · 2011-07-29, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

A gate crasher needs a method of launching people off the ground so they don't immediately die on egress, or something to protect them while they make for the door, because as you unstealthily barrel past the lines, you will be noticed, and followed.

A teleport, a pod launcher, or a large bubble shield that is big enough you can park and still have room to run into a door while inside it.

It would also be wise to stop considering it a transport vehicle, outside those specific circumstances. Considering the way the class system works, hitching a ride will be the least of peoples worries.

This is something I can agree with, a brute force attack vehicle. This would be another great way a team can assualt a base together. Team base strategy is the reason I play ps1 and it should always prevail over a one man army.

Bags · 2011-07-29, 03:36 AM

Team play currently does prevail over one man army.

DviddLeff · 2011-07-29, 03:47 AM

Spawn point, equipment terminal on the back, weapon choice through specialisation and allow the user to swap out normal seats for MAX seats to really make it an assault vehicle, that's what I would do to make it more popular.

However as it stands for the whole thing is a waste of 11 troops most of the time, with the glut of available cert points that could be 11 air cav, or 5 tanks, etc. This won't get better in the sequel where everyone can access everything whenever they want...

exLupo · 2011-07-29, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

However as it stands for the whole thing is a waste of 11 troops most of the time, with the glut of available cert points that could be 11 air cav, or 5 tanks, etc.

A customized transport with 11 trained mixed small arms troops with little to no air or tank training who arrive safely will do more for the indoor fight than 11 poorly trained mixed small arms troops who get there with their own highly trained vehicle or 11 poorly trained air/tank troops who don't make it there at all.

While everyone will be able to do everything in theory, they seem to be following the EVE model which means "in theory" is going to be inaccessible before the game shuts down. Unless they haven't learned any lessons from BR40 but I would assume they have.

I'm putting a lot of faith that they won't screw up again and let everyone cert everything. They're talking up specialization so hard that it'd totally fly in the face of everything they're saying.

Oo.. and on top of everything else, 11 trained boots from a small arms specialist outfit means even more. PS1's era of "everyone has a mossie" will, hopefully, phase out when you have to choose whether or not you want to be good indoors or out. Troops may have quick transport but I'd be surprised if it were any good for anything involving enemy presence.