The lethality of Planetside 2 is cranked up.

[wave]

As said in the G4TV Interviews Matt Higby at 6:08. This concerns me. I loved the original Planetside and I especially liked that I had a chance to implement tactics without the worry of being one shotted every time I turned a corner. WOW really screwed things up by turning every class into glass canons by to time they were level 80. Combat that is overly deadly is no fun. I want to atleast have a chance at surviving if I am jumped from behind or if I tap my mouse a millisecond after my opponent. I want my tank to take some huge damage and be able to escape by the skin of my teeth. Dying too often is frustrating and boring.
I just hope that Planetside 2 doesnt take its que from the current state of WOW battlegrounds. Lame!

[MrVicchio]

Originally Posted by wave

As said in the G4TV Interviews Matt Higby at 6:08. This concerns me. I loved the original Planetside and I especially liked that I had a chance to implement tactics without the worry of being one shotted every time I turned a corner. WOW really screwed things up by turning every class into glass canons by to time they were level 80. Combat that is overly deadly is no fun. I want to atleast have a chance at surviving if I am jumped from behind or if I tap my mouse a millisecond after my opponent. I want my tank to take some huge damage and be able to escape by the skin of my teeth. Dying too often is frustrating and boring.
I just hope that Planetside 2 doesnt take its que from the current state of WOW battlegrounds. Lame!

Guns tend to kill people.

BF2BC2 has great pacing IMHO in terms of survivability.

[SKYeXile]

THE GAME IS GOING TO BE HARDCORE LIKE COD!!


100 SHOTS FIRED, 2 HITS = KILL. REAL HARDCORE!

i hope it is nothing like this at all, and the game accutally requires a conistent aim like in PS1, not randomly firing to acheive victory.

[Goku]

Wow that is BS. No weapon in PS could ever do full auto and keep that accuracy on infantry due to the CoF system.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

THE GAME IS GOING TO BE HARDCORE LIKE COD!!

Spray and pray - YouTube

100 SHOTS FIRED, 2 HITS = KILL. REAL HARDCORE!

i hope it is nothing like this at all, and the game accutally requires a conistent aim like in PS1, not randomly firing to acheive victory.

Dude, that's real skill. That's what I did in COD and was amazed that it actually worked.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

THE GAME IS GOING TO BE HARDCORE LIKE COD!!

Spray and pray - YouTube

100 SHOTS FIRED, 2 HITS = KILL. REAL HARDCORE!

i hope it is nothing like this at all, and the game accutally requires a conistent aim like in PS1, not randomly firing to acheive victory.

Because players in PS1 never spam plasma/thumpers/maelstroms/HA/tanks shells/Reaver rockets/Pounder shells, etc at stairs, doorways, and other chokepoints and get random kills.

Puh-lease.

That guy in your vid got killed because he apparently had no idea where the shots were coming from, had no concept of the word "cover," and made no effort to actually avoid being shot.

But players with aiming skills like the machine gunner in that vid would would get their asses handed to them by people who can actually aim, like this guy:


Aiming can be just as important in games that have more lethal weapons because against a competent opponent, if you can't immediately fire on target during your first couple of shots, you die. I know this since I played on the server karter's vid was recorded on for several years (POTW). In PS1 OTOH, you often can miss the first few shots and still come out on top if you mash ADADA enough. Not that that's necessary bad gameplay. It just not any tougher/more skillful IMO than if PS1's weapons were more lethal.

Now personally I'm hoping the lethality of weapons in PS2 fall about halfway between PS1's weapons and those shown in the COD2 vid I posted. So around 4-6 shots to kill someone, with nothing like PShield, SW, health bene's, or possibly even medkits to boost your health during the actual exchange of fire.

I also hope that 1S1K grunt weapons never make it into PS2, even headshots from a sniper rifle. Correction, especially headshots from a sniper rifle.

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by Erendil

Because players in PS1 never spam plasma/thumpers/maelstroms/HA/tanks shells/Reaver rockets/Pounder shells, etc at stairs, doorways, and other chokepoints and get random kills.

Puh-lease.

I don't think you got the point, nor the sarcasm. Grenade spam kills slowly and randomly. This was just pure no-skill gameplay, rewarded by the "hardcore" (or "noobcore" as I prefer to call it) mode.

Luckily SOE seems to be biased towards BFBC2, which has a slower TTK than Modern Warfare and pretty much perfect pacing.

[exLupo]

BFBC2 is lethal, no doubt, but I never feel terribly rushed. Close, shotgun kind of ranges are usually pretty quick and either it's a steamroll or nearly everybody dies in the process. Mid-long engagements reward well placed shots but more often than not you know you're getting shot before you die.

What gets me in PS1 is that you can hose someone with a MA and keep laying on fire and they just don't die. It's a let down. CoD is the complete opposite end of the dial. I'm here and I'm dead.

BF TTKs at all ranges feel much more like CoD but not so much that I am overwhelmed. If PS1 is a 1 and CoD is a 10 I'm thinking what.. TF2 is a 4 and BF is a 6?

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Erendil

Aiming can be just as important in games that have more lethal weapons because against a competent opponent, if you can't immediately fire on target during your first couple of shots, you die. I know this since I played on the server karter's vid was recorded on for several years (POTW). In PS1 OTOH, you often can miss the first few shots and still come out on top if you mash ADADA enough. Not that that's necessary bad gameplay. It just not any tougher/more skillful IMO than if PS1's weapons were more lethal.

I agree, but it also promotes fast reflexes, so its generally better for younger players who are better because at that, i think a higher time to kill levels the playing field more, and not to mention, this is an MMO, you really want to a kill packet in route to the server just as the packet that shows the enemy on your screen gets to your client?...

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

I agree, but it also promotes fast reflexes, so its generally better for younger players who are better because at that, i think a higher time to kill levels the playing field more, and not to mention, this is an MMO, you really want to a kill packet in route to the server just as the packet that shows the enemy on your screen gets to your client?...

True, one's reflexes does tend to slow down a bit as you age so younger players would have an advantage in the regard.

However, increased lethality also promotes more tactical gameplay since you have less time to react and defend yourself when unexpectedly attacked from the flanks or rear, when caught out in the open, while reloading or healing/repping, etc. Tactical gameplay tends to favour the, er, "wise and experienced" more than the young, and IME that generally balances out any reflex disadvantage us more-seasoned gamers might have.

It's really difficult to comment on how well PS2 deals with lag, etc, but it's never been so insurmountable an obstacle in any other FPS I've played so I don't anticipate it being game-breaking here.

But tbh, I'm willing to put up with the occasion "death before I see an opponent round the corner" if it means I can sneak up behind someone with a rifle and kill them before they have a chance to spin around, pull HA, and put 3 JH shots into my chest since I haven't hit him enough to take him out even though I'm landing every shot and I got the drop on him.

And FIREk, for the record I knew exactly what SKYeXile was talking about and knew his response wasn't exactly serious. It just that he and others like him seem to start foaming at the mouth and end up going into this same hyperbolic diatribe every time somebody mentions the words "COD" or "lethality" and "PS2" in the same sentence. SKY himself has done so several times both here and on SOE's forums, and though I had been holding my tongue I finally said enough and responded in kind....

And I would say that the bullet spraying in SKY's vid was rewarded as much by the cluelessness and stupidity of the victim as it was by the lethality of the weapon. I bet that guy would've died just as easily and pathetically in PS1.

[Elude]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Spray and pray - YouTube

Not to say this does not happen in COD, I'm more then positive it does, but demo recordings(replays) do not simulate the exact condition. I've seen in many demo recordings for games where I remembered landing a shot directly but in the the demo it was far to the left, I also remember several times I remember clearly missing a shot, but it will land perfectly in the demo.

This is easily tested by just recording yourself live as you record a demo at the same time and compare them side by side.

[NlightN]

I say just keep the same relative TTK as in PS1, but with hitboxes now -instant headshot kills. Make hits to the chest deal 1.5 times normal damage, while shots to the head deal 2-2.5 times normal damage. Have automatic weapons adjusted to a lower ratio based on CoF spread though. That way the skilled shooters are rewarded with faster TTKs yet no one has to worry about being mowed down as soon as they appear from round a corner.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

I agree with 4-6 bullets for the TTK, depending on the weapon, maybe 4-5 bullets. or 6-7 with a pistol.

The BFbc2 TTK is perfect in my opinion.

What I am hoping is they don't have tanks that can send a 150mm shell and barely damage a soldier.... with a direct hit.

Tanks should be much more volatile and harder to aim.

See I prefer much larger TTKs in games where you're forced to shoot like 15-20 rounds at a target to get the kill with a machine gun with a 30 round clip. A pistol would be a slower fire rate and take like 10 with a 15 bullet clip. A TTK of like 2-3 seconds is about what I prefer.

The reason I like this is because it restricts a single gun's kill count to around 1 person or maybe 2 with a grenade/pistol. It artificially allows players to retreat and gives each piece of armor and health a significant value in combat fortifying the roles of medics and engineers in the battlefield. If you stick you head up and take a few rounds it's basically not game over. You can keep a player pinned down for instance without killing them so squads can plan actual tactics. (Basically a solo player can't wipe a whole team).

Not sure if you guys have been to a professional FPS LAN or tried to play in one but most of the matches are like this: . It works for some games and people enjoy it, but I personally think it detracts from team combat by making things that fast.

(By the way I played COD 2 a lot and it worked fine for that game. I just don't like that gameplay in Planetside with as many people as we'll be having).

[BorisBlade]

The bullets in PS1 arent necessarily weak or armor high, the COF on HA weaps blooms like mad when you get hit or when you move much (watch the mcg bloom), combined with the goofy cshd not catchin all the hits, you end up takin longer to kill things. Go spray a dummy in VR who doesnt hit you nor do you have to move alot so your COF stays fairly small, he dies stupid fast to HA. Somethin you really notice as TR and VS. (NC dont really have much of an issue because of instant bullet travel on the JH that doesnt require leading and bloom that doesnt do much.)

If hit detection and accuracy are boosted, somethin that ironsights or somethin similar will do for sure, then that alone will greatly speed up TTK. You dont necessarily have to change the bullet/armor values all that much in a case like that where alot more of your bullets actually land.

Honestly i hope its around what Agile currently is, for the new rexo equivalent in PS2, then go down from there. 1000-1500 players + BF speed quick death doesnt sound like much fun, there is way too much damage flyin around in these massive games to be puttin in quick deaths. The faster you die the less tactical play you can use. Obviously we dont want the final result of PS1's Rexo as its too long, but CoD is the absolute worst, BF is better but still a bit too fast for PS style gameplay.

Gotta find a happy medium and take into account all factors not just bullet damage/armor value.

[Hamma]

Holy crap that first video was sad, I highly doubt we will see this in PS.