NO to the following in PS2.

[Eurotrash]

The old maxim goes, if it works don't try to fix it. Planetside was a damn near perfect game imo.

DON'T change the aspects which were great, such as the following:

1) RPG style power progression, BIG NO. its an FPS, ROF/COF/DAMAGE , player heath/armor should remain UNCHANGED between BR1 and BR20.

- The only things higher levels should entitle you to are things that DON'T impact directly on player combat, but INSTEAD effect your tactical versatility or appearance

Acceptable Examples:
- More inventory space (carry more ammo/weapons without needing to restock/re-equip)
- More equipment to choose from
- Reasonable Reductions on Cooldowns on Obtaining MAX's/Vehicles etc.. from terminal.
- Vanity Items - Customise the appearance of your armor/weapons/vehicles with a selection of skins/decals. This is harmless, and keeps the RPG crowd happy, as they can Power Game all day to get a decal for their Reaver .

2) DON'T add set classes i.e. TF2/BF2 style. The beauty of PS1 was that I could customize my own class, by spending skill(cert) points on what i wanted. Doing this would essentially dumb down the game.

Planetside 2 should essentially be the first game with better graphics, don't re-invent the wheel, it was spinning perfectly before. Players want Depth and gameplay, NOT mindless grinding, unlockables, empty achievements.

FPS skill is in itself provides power progression, it is its own achievement. It doesn't need to be manufactured. If someone sucks at the game, the grind they have to endure is a real one, and that is of getting better - NOT killing 40,000 Wolves/Boars on a minimised screen while listening to music.

If the EQ devs, which are no doubt involved, want an outlet for their instiable RPG urges, focus it on the command rank side of the game. (Suggestions: Improved Orbital Strikes, EMP radius increases, better sattelite, cooldown reductions, increased speed of transport vehicles/ANTS and ofc vanity stuff such as hats and titles (i.e. captain/major etc..))

I am speaking as Veteran of PS1, Quake 3, and someone who WASTED 3 months on WoW.

I simply will not play if this is WOW/EQ with guns.

p.s. please discuss, as we should be very vocal about preserving planetside as an FPS pedigree, and hope that SOE will listen, otherwise this will just be CoD:Space Ops.

FAO devs: look at what Capcom and Warner Bros did with the waning Beat-em-up genre, Street Fighter 4 and Mortal Kombat 9 - Slick Modern Graphics, indepth rewarding gameplay with a vintage feel = big sales and happy customers. Please do the same for PS.

[Peacemaker]

Sorry bud, then your not going to play it. Spend a year of specing and get a 20% boost to your abilities (spread across them all not a 20% to ROF or Damage) there's no health increases. There's no set classes as far as we've seen. Just a different way to chose you loadouts. Not many people want PS with a new engine, sorry. Your SOL. Do some reading on the game and try it before you knock it.

[Timmy]

Well I'm glad we have another vet around to voice opinion and shape the game.
Perhaps try to give some critique and ideas in the threads regarding each individual issue you bring up. They exist in this "Planetside 2 Discussion" forum for a reason.
You are not in the minority by the way regarding your concerns - from an idealogical point of view people are split whether there should be a built in power progression at all considering the lack of details given about it we can only speculate what that means. Even if it sucks beta can and will change a lot of things since

Originally Posted by T-Ray
At the end of the day, if it doesn’t work in beta and frustrates people, we’ll remove it and find a way to fix it. So if you are hearin’ something that you’re not too sure about, all bets off when it gets to beta. That’s when the rubber hits the road. We’ll find out what works and what doesn’t and make changes based off player feedback.

[Eurotrash]

I was under the impression that the 20% is dmg etc...

so how can you spread 20% over all the abilities? you mean like 1% bonuses on certain weapons etc.. ( i would be ok with that i guess).

I don't mind playing for a year to spec out, as long as on day 1 - i won't be gimped when fighting against someone 5 levels higher than me. Simply because he has no job, and all day to powergame.

You say people don't want PS1 with a new engine.. i am pretty sure they don't want wow with guns or CoD: Space Ops.

Planetside is a PC game, an MMO one at that, not a cash cow console port.

I have found my self playing less and less new games over the years, yet i still play quake3 and a little Starcraft 2. Why is this? I thougt its because i am alot older now. But no, i have realised that most new games now cashing in their names, producing dumbed down, rigid gameplay, where everything is spoonfed, forcing people to play the game for longer by farming empty achievments (90% of which require 0 skill).

I am a little confused as to what is it exactly that they want to deliver with this game....

[Elude]

I agree with almost everything except this...

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

DON'T add set classes i.e. TF2/BF2 style. The beauty of PS1 was that I could customize my own class, by spending skill(cert) points on what i wanted. Doing this would essentially dumb down the game.

Planetside 2 should essentially be the first game with better graphics, don't re-invent the wheel, it was spinning perfectly before.

Wrong, the beauty of PS1 was that it was a persistent fps battle with 100s of players competing all at the same time. We already know set classes are in play for PS2 as the developers have already confirmed this, they also mention you will be able to customize said classes to your own liking, but what you wont have is a medic using a rocket launcher. This does not dumb down the game, if anything it makes it more tactical, and less of a random death fest.

There was many things wrong with PS1, it was by far from perfected, the wheel wasn't just awkward in shape, but it span way to slowly. PS1 needs more then just an overhaul in graphics, it needs a whole set of new rules, and conditions.

[Eurotrash]

A medic with a rocketlauncher.... that fine.... BECAUSE

lets say, there are 50 cert abilities. And you are BR 20, with 20 Cert Points.

You can only have 20 of those abilities. You can be a jack of all trades, but master of none i.e. a little bit of everything, or someone who spends all his abilities on Weapons or Flying Vehicles. You have to optimise within those 20 points.

i.e. If you got all the weapons/ reinforced armor/ engi/med in the original. You could not have a vehicle/max in your setup. This means that you have to rely on transport to get you to the next base quickly, thats the price you pay for weapon versatility.


It wasn't a random deathfest, just because one person has the skill to take out 5-6 people by himself in an outpost and capture it, good for him. This is no unbalanced by any means, because the other players had the SAME opportunities. However (like i said above) after being stranded on his own at an outpost, he has to RUN over to the action. This is the Trade off.

Do not try and force teamwork, just for the sake of it.

I don't to have to have some guy with a pistol and light armor running after me healing me. Its a luxury yes, not a necessity. You will then have people whinging "they have more healers, which is why we are losing". - a common cry in wow battle grounds "NEED 2 healers, NEED Tanks" no one plays those as a specialised class, because they are generally boring. However, being a soldier, who happens to have cert points in med, may be inclined to help a wounded comrade.

The first one was a little slow at times, BUT you dont want it too fast. I liked logging on in the evening, and hot spots are the same as they were 5 hours ago... gives a true sense of conflict.

[Elude]

SOE is trying to eliminate the one man army scenario, removing the jack of all trades is the best way to do this.

Why would any one person invest in being a master of one class when they can become decent with all classes and compensate for being a master in all of them with pure skill, it is a horrible way to deal with it. A medic should NOT be able to handle a tank, reaver, sniper, infiltrator, and max unit just because he has the skills, and the gear for it!


This does not force team play directly, it just influences it. Of course your going to have people crying over wanting more of one class, that is strategy! This is not about who has the most medics or any one class on the field, because in the end they can all be countered by a different class. You wont need more medics then the enemy team.

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by Elude

SOE is trying to eliminate the one man army scenario, removing the jack of all trades is the best way to do this.

Why would any one person invest in being a master of one class when they can become decent with all classes and compensate for being a master in all of them with pure skill, it is a horrible way to deal with it. A medic should NOT be able to handle a tank, reaver, sniper, infiltrator, and max unit just because he has the skills, and the gear for it!
.

What is wrong with being able to compensate with pure skill!??!! you should be able to do that! You cant stop the one man army, because, in the original PS, you had people using Medium Armor & Gauss Gun taking down MAX's with armor piercing rounds and good fps skill. Do not change this. Don't make this a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.

You can only stop the one one army, by making the game geared around masses of people spamming (in teamwork speak - "providing cover") with nades.

You have 5 idental Players on 1 team, and 1 lone wolf with the same gear. Lone wolf takes them all out, because he is more skilled and smarter. Why shouldnt this be allowed? this is the reward of getting good at the game.

[Peacemaker]

The game will still play like that. The lone wolf player isn't going to beable to do AV and AI AND repair / heal him self anymore. That's good. The game is team based. Being a good shot with a gauss so you can kill 5 to 1 is great, but you shouldn't also beable to rape a MAX, then repair your self then heal your self all after dropping out of a light scout plane. Your acting like because your not the One man army anymore the game will suck.... solution? Get some friends. Got friends? Someone has to be your medic. Now you gotta keep that guy alive.

Better FPS players are still going to do better. And yes the 20% is an overall stats buff across all fields. That is, you could have 5% more damage 2%rof 3% CoF and 10% Running speed. You cant put 20% into just damage, and the numbers I used are probably a little high too. Someone who plays more than you is going to have more abilities, but only marginally so. It should not take you long to get within an area where your speced out and are slightly worse off than a guy who spent a year. So relax and enjoy the new PS. You might like it better. I think I will.

[Aractain]

Did someone say PS1 was damn near perfect?

LOL

One man armys didn't compensate with skill, they run away from the few fights they can't win and destroy everything else because of rock paper scissors design of PS1.

PS2 is moving towards a more skill based enviroment but rather than twitch aiming skill will be more based on positioning and supprise (otherwise known as stratergy and tactics) as people die faster and its more viable to win in situations with unoptimal gear.

[Raymac]

This dead horse has been beat around alot lately. Especially here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=36903

[Elude]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

What is wrong with being able to compensate with pure skill!??!! you should be able to do that! You cant stop the one man army, because, in the original PS, you had people using Medium Armor & Gauss Gun taking down MAX's with armor piercing rounds and good fps skill. Do not change this. Don't make this a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.

You can only stop the one one army, by making the game geared around masses of people spamming (in teamwork speak - "providing cover") with nades.

You have 5 idental Players on 1 team, and 1 lone wolf with the same gear. Lone wolf takes them all out, because he is more skilled and smarter. Why shouldnt this be allowed? this is the reward of getting good at the game.

Rock paper scissors is random, compensating an enemies forces by massing more of one type of class is not random. This would be like playing rock paper scissors in turns rather then at the same time, if someone threw down rock, you would throw down paper, this is not random.

You act as if there would be no skill involved because you can't play three types of classes at the same time, you don't need a pocket knife when you have a sharper knife, larger spoon, and better can opener in your back pack.

If the enemy team has a mass of tanks, then switch your class, and rely on your skills to take on 10 instead of 2.

[Eurotrash]

I think the % weapon improvements are totally pointless, they are clinging on the RPG element too tightly, it worries me.

I don't want to be able to rape a MAX, but I also don't want to be raped a MAX because I selected the wrong spec earlier today. Aka - rock,paper, scissors.

Also nothing wrong with healing/repair - thats fine - because EVERYONE can do it. I don't want to rely on having to play with someone all the time.

Also you can't be all AI/AV/AA all at once.....

If you equip a jackhammer + gauss - you are totally specced for AI. Its going to be alot tougher dealing with a max that pops up.

HOWEVER , if you have AV + Jackhammer - you are lacking in range , so when a level 2 VS with a Punisher pops up 50 yards away, you are at a disavantage.

You equip your inventory with what you anticipate you are going to encounter.

I dont want to "select scissors" and cut up all the paper players, and then get steamrolled by rock.

Ideally you want to be at a slight advantage in one situation, slightly disadvantaged in another. Not Uber in one situation and hopeless in another.

I remember one time, i got behind enemy lines in a battle on solsar, took out around 32 players, by repairing between each 4-5 kills, I was around level 14 at the time, and every player had the same set up as me roughly. it wasn't unbalanced, it wasn't unfair, I just won fair and square.

[Eurotrash]

There is nothing wrong with class based games, I thoroughly enjoyed Team Fortress Classic. Everytime you respawn, you could pick a new class. However in FPS the word class makes me shudder, because it basically means u have 2-3 abilities, which you repeat all day long, in the same scenario.

What we should be focussing on is not, Classes, but roles which you play. The previous set up allowed u to select what role you play at a moments notice. You are versatile. I do not want to be pigeon holed into a particular class/role for any longer than i want to/need to be in.

Winning because you shoot your enemy in the back?! is that how you want to win. I want to slug it out face to face (i.e. proper fps- which involves, mind games, constant position re-adjustment, reactions). The old system, everyone had acess to everything, no complaints. Its just that the one man army you were facing was better than you.

[Aractain]

You just said you shot a bunch of people in the back (behind enemy lines is a supprise attack).

PS2 does exactly what you said in the second paragraph but you don't want that in the first???