Not Another Teen Tank Debate

[Xyntech]

This is not intended to be a debate thread. This is a pole to see where people stand. Maybe it can help Higby and crew in their decision on which option to go with.

I've attempted to put every option I can think of, between the PS1 system and the current PS2 system, but I've left the "other" option available for write in votes if you have something I missed. Please only use this option if you have an idea that falls somewhere between PS1 and PS2. This isn't meant to be a thread to come up with entirely unique new ideas on how to handle the tank driver/gunner situation.

I ask that as many people as possible vote here. Even if you don't care about the issue, you can vote for the default current PS2 system, since that one is what the devs currently seem to intend to use.

Once again, this is not a debate thread. I think that this topic has been debated to death. I'd even go so far as to ask the moderators to delete any posts that start getting too debate oriented.

If you wish to post your reasons for your decision, that is great, just try to refrain from debating or deriding anyone else's comments or preferences.

[basti]

We had such a poll aready. It died...

[MooK]

I chose "Driver controls secondary gun. Gunner controls main gun," however, I would have preferred, "Planetside 1 system. Driver only drives. Gunner controls main gun." I chose what I chose as a compromise to the developer's needs for a faster paced game. I believe that allowing the driver to control driving and the main gun will only further displace cooperative and multiplayer gameplay.

[Baron]

The only issue with driver controlling the secondary gun is that gun could be a AA attachment. Soooo, driver now drives and controls a gun that has to look at the sky? good luck

[morf]

I chose other. I don't like the driver controlling the main turret. What's the point in my friend gunning my tank when he can just pull his own and we can have double health and 2 primary turrets?

I think they should be equal but different. Don't call it a primary/secondary. Have them both be roughly the same power but serve different roles, then customize from there. If you want drivers to have an advantage, put it in their skill tree that they can unlock more options. Maybe even let them unlock more options as both a gunner and driver. Or maybe make an abbreviated skill tree for gunners.

But definitely, if the driver controls a turret that is 2x as effective as the secondary turret, my crew of 8 will be pulling 8 tanks.

[Raymac]

I think there should be a poll answer that is the current Planetside 2 system with option to add a 3rd passenger so you have 1 dedicated driver and 2 dedicated gunners.

[Talek Krell]

I prefer the PS1 system. I am interested to see what they do with the flexibility they'll have now though. Simply copying Battlefield and putting a dinky LoS turret on the tanks would be a failure state, but they could also use the dedicated gunner to make some interesting and powerful equipment available.

[Sirisian]

hmm left out the option to allow driver to control the main gun, but be able to release it ot the secondary gunner. The driver should never be able to access the secondary guns.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by basti

We had such a poll aready. It died...

Sorry, my oversight. I only recalled the debate thread, but didn't notice a poll on my quick scanning of threads. I figured since a modification to let the gunner control the main gun was mentioned as still being under consideration in this weeks Q&A, it would be worthwhile to see where the community stood numerically.

Originally Posted by Baron

The only issue with driver controlling the secondary gun is that gun could be a AA attachment. Soooo, driver now drives and controls a gun that has to look at the sky? good luck

Fair trade off for having what would amount to a 1 man skyguard with tank armor Besides, you wouldn't be shooting at aircraft all the time. Just slow down or stop if you spot one, or keep moving and hope for the best.

Originally Posted by morf

I chose other. I don't like the driver controlling the main turret. What's the point in my friend gunning my tank when he can just pull his own and we can have double health and 2 primary turrets?

I think they should be equal but different. Don't call it a primary/secondary. Have them both be roughly the same power but serve different roles, then customize from there. If you want drivers to have an advantage, put it in their skill tree that they can unlock more options. Maybe even let them unlock more options as both a gunner and driver. Or maybe make an abbreviated skill tree for gunners.

But definitely, if the driver controls a turret that is 2x as effective as the secondary turret, my crew of 8 will be pulling 8 tanks.

Sounds like your primary concern is that the driver should not be able to control the strongest gun. Option 3 would fill that role, with a caveat if you'd prefer the driver to be able to control a gun equally as powerful.

Originally Posted by Raymac

I think there should be a poll answer that is the current Planetside 2 system with option to add a 3rd passenger so you have 1 dedicated driver and 2 dedicated gunners.

That's quite different from what we saw in PS1 (aside from the gimped Prowler) and what they have indicated we will have in PS2. I feel that we should stick to somewhere more within the lines of what's currently in PS1 and PS2 or some compromise that's directly between the two, unless the devs indicate that they are considering more drastically rethinking their options.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

hmm left out the option to allow driver to control the main gun, but be able to release it ot the secondary gunner. The driver should never be able to access the secondary guns.

Any particular reason why the gunner shouldn't control the secondary turret? I can't see any balance reasons for disallowing it that would be any different from drivers controlling the main gun.

Allowing the driver to release the gun is a good idea, but I think this could be qualified as a "driver controls the main gun, gunner controls secondary gun" with a thread post to clarify further, including that when the driver released the main gun, they did not gain access to the secondary gun.

It seems like the secondary turret idea has probably been developed pretty heavily already, so I didn't make any options other than the PS1 option that wouldn't include it.

[sylphaen]

Other:

Gunner controls the main gun.
Driver controls the vehicles and counter-measures/secondary systems.

If one person has the cert to get the vehicle:
- allow the owner to either drive or gun that vehicle but not both at the same time.
- allow anyone to either drive or gun for that vehicle as long as the other seat is reserved for the owner and cannot be used by anyone else.

_______________________

Repairing from inside the vehicle is lame since it does give a moment of opportunity of opportunity for snipers/cloakers/reavers/soldiers/etc... to kill the driver and/or gunner.

In PS1, if the driver died to a cloaker, it essentially neutralized the vehicle because it could not move anymore unless the gunner was an adv. medic. I never played as a cloaker but it must have been feeling great for them while as a driver, it always made me feel some kind of tension and risk when deciding to repair because the vehicle system (i.e. gunner+driver+vehicle platform) became vulnerable.


Now if PS2 is meant to be like BF3 with disposable vehicles (and accordingly balanced around that concept), then it is already too late and there is no point to having a vehicle system that's anything like PS1 (even though it's what I prefer).

[sylphaen]

Originally Posted by Baron

The only issue with driver controlling the secondary gun is that gun could be a AA attachment. Soooo, driver now drives and controls a gun that has to look at the sky? good luck

That was the whole challenge of driving a skyguard. Even the driver not having a turret !

When your vehicle has paper armor, situational awareness and good communication with your gunner is essential.

[CplVars]

Originally Posted by sylphaen

When your vehicle has paper armor, situational awareness and good communication with your gunner is essential.

That brings some good memories to mind.

Honestly driving was already a full time job in PS1. You had to keep your eyes open for everything; there wasn't any time to do anything beyond drive in intense combat situations. Besides I loved watching infantry flee as I rolled into them with a fully manned Prowler. The arc of the shots was already pretty wonky. I can't imagine trying to guess the targets range, adjust for range, adjust for speed, adjust for target movement, and dodge trees, rocks, and mines all at the same time.

[Azren]

Is there really a need to restart this topic? We had two very long debates on this before. Most people agreed that PS2 plans blow in comparison to PS1. Some people suggested the compromise to have the driver get the secondary gun (like Magrider in PS1). Some (very naiive) people suggested to wait for beta and see how it is. Other (more experienced) people told them this is bs, since any key element what makes it to beta, stays.

That's about it, not much else worthwile input was given on the topic. Same will happen here. PS1 style supporters are the majority.

Btw to stay on topic, I went with PS1 style in the poll.

[Canaris]

Dedicated main gunner and and give the driver a secondary makes sense to me

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by Raymac

I think there should be a poll answer that is the current Planetside 2 system with option to add a 3rd passenger so you have 1 dedicated driver and 2 dedicated gunners.

This, either the option or this by default with no "gunner=driver" option at all.

I DO NOT want to drive and gun at the same time, it sux and it doesnt feel like ps at all. I wont even drive if i have to do that and driving was my favorite thing to do in PS.