Big debate "Game balance"

SuperMorto · 2011-12-07, 04:05 PM

Now I know the VS maxes cant fly I would like to discuss game balance. I know these guys are working hard, but taking that away from the VS maxes is like taking the purple from their clothing. Its a massive miss in my eyes.

Now I know game balance is a problem, but hold on it was done before. And some may say that flying maxes in PS1 was bad, well remember a flying max could not be escorted by a team or platoon. Balancing it out nice.

Now we have fly troops in PS2, wich to me seems a good idea. But to take from one and give to all seems like the game is being "Halo'd" just making it flatter and flatter.

I have a question for the devs. What does the VS have that none of the other 2 factions have? And don't say floating tanks. Please dont take away without letting us know some of the good stuff. Or we will have to make things up like,"VS maxes will have a nice purple stick with shinys on it"

And another things about balance, you have to balance what your community thinks, and currently a big fan of everything PS2 has lost a little interest. Yes folks that one thing has put me of a little. (or the lack of not knowing what will replace it) I have a good imagination, and without facts I fill in the gaps with the knowledge I have about the subject in mind. And currently im filling it with crap.

Rant over. We can talk about balance again.

Coreldan · 2011-12-07, 04:09 PM

What does TR and NC MAX have in comparison to VS?

I don't think it was really a case of being the best/OP MAX or anything in PS, but I understand that it's an issue now that light armors are supposed to get jump packs.

Overall VS still seems to have the strongest niche even if they lose a jumping MAX, don't see why the long face

So yeah, I don't see this as a case of symmetric balancing, more of a result of giving jump packs to light assault. I dont mind asymmetric balance, but I don't really mind symmetric'ish balance either as long as there are something other than colours and name that set factions apart.

Graywolves · 2011-12-07, 04:09 PM

VS and NC are OP

Buff TR

SuperMorto · 2011-12-07, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Coreldan

What does TR and NC MAX have in comparison to VS?

I don't think it was really a case of being the best/OP MAX or anything in PS, but I understand that it's an issue now that light armors are supposed to get jump packs.

Overall VS still seems to have the strongest niche even if they lose a jumping MAX, don't see why the long face

So yeah, I don't see this as a case of symmetric balancing, more of a result of giving jump packs to light assault. I dont mind asymmetric balance, but I don't really mind symmetric'ish balance either as long as there are something other than colours and name that set factions apart.

Ok as a VS Rexo the last thing you wanted to see was either one of those maxes. They put fear into out troops as they owned what essentially was the bulk of any army the troops. Now can you say you have ever feared a VS max? No they were piss poor at everything but shooting aircraft and jumping.

Sifer2 · 2011-12-07, 04:20 PM

Well that sucks ass. I was really looking forward to playing a VS MAX more than anything else actually. Especially since they talked about the game having more vertical terrain than before. Which is probably exactly why VS MAX flying ability has been cut. Would probably be too good in the new game with how they are designing things.

But then that makes you wonder what ability the VS MAX will get.

Coreldan · 2011-12-07, 04:20 PM

They were scary enough to turn me into a steaming pile, seeing that I was usually just sporting CE/FDU rexo.

SuperMorto · 2011-12-07, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

If this game works and populates as intended, then balance really won't ever be an issue as you will be shooting and getting shot by multiple people at once. I don't see "one on one" battles happening that often.

Im going to go off my own topic here. Thing is Duke, im not likeing what im seeing. I know I know, the game looks amazing visually (and it does) but its the guts im worried about. I mean why do all 3 sides need tanks? Why couldn't on side do without them? Same with aircraft why couldn't one side not have them? And some of you might say "balance" well the thing is you can balance anything its a scientific fact.

Say for example:

The VS had all there aircraft taken away....... Now I hear you say oooohhhh myyyy goooddddd!!! What will they do?????? Well fact is give them >>>all<<< including maxes cloaking abilities and some fast moving ground vehicle and your back on track. Bare in mind this is a quick example.

Now say the NC had no maxes at all!!! OOOHHHH MYYY GOODDD what will they do?????? well give them drilling galaxies than can go underground and pop up anywhere on the map boom! Its balanced. (remember these are quick examples)

Right finally the TR. Take away all the big tanks..............yes you guessed it OHHH MY GODD what will they do????? Well give them something to balance it.................... A fucking big mech!!! yes a fucking big mech! and your back on track.

Now I know all of the above is slightly over exaggerated but I hope you all get what I mean. I dont want to play as any faction and for it to feel 60% like any other. I want them to feel very different.

SuperMorto · 2011-12-07, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Coreldan

They were scary enough to turn me into a steaming pile, seeing that I was usually just sporting CE/FDU rexo.

Thats bad luck, not balance.

Coreldan · 2011-12-07, 04:44 PM

That would be taking asymmetric balance way too far IMO. Taking away a HUGE part of the game just cos you play certain faction.

I don't mind fairly big faction perks like jumping MAXes that VS had, but I think it would be a far worse mistake to actually make one side not have tanks or the other to not have aircrafts. No matter how well it would be compensated elsewhere, I do not think that would be a good idea.

Not to mention, the more asymmetric the balance it, the harder it is to actually balance it. While it can be done, but unbalance kills playerbase pretty fast too.

Bravix · 2011-12-07, 04:51 PM

My assumption is that they're going to give the VS jets for boosting around on the ground, Armored Core style. Based on the concept art, they certainly have thrusters.

I however am very disappointed that they can't fly. It was pretty fun. Sure, it didn't really give you a combat edge indoors (serverside made it hard to effectively dodge deci's) but dammit I liked jumping over walls and scaring the shit out of the TR.

Edit: If the VS MAX gets a normal run speed of infantry and boosting jets I'd totally be fine with the loss of flight

Tapman · 2011-12-07, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by SuperMorto

Im going to go off my own topic here. Thing is Duke, im not likeing what im seeing. I know I know, the game looks amazing visually (and it does) but its the guts im worried about. I mean why do all 3 sides need tanks? Why couldn't on side do without them? Same with aircraft why couldn't one side not have them? And some of you might say "balance" well the thing is you can balance anything its a scientific fact.

Say for example:

The VS had all there aircraft taken away....... Now I hear you say oooohhhh myyyy goooddddd!!! What will they do?????? Well fact is give them >>>all<<< including maxes cloaking abilities and some fast moving ground vehicle and your back on track. Bare in mind this is a quick example.

Now say the NC had no maxes at all!!! OOOHHHH MYYY GOODDD what will they do?????? well give them drilling galaxies than can go underground and pop up anywhere on the map boom! Its balanced. (remember these are quick examples)

Right finally the TR. Take away all the big tanks..............yes you guessed it OHHH MY GODD what will they do????? Well give them something to balance it.................... A fucking big mech!!! yes a fucking big mech! and your back on track.

Now I know all of the above is slightly over exaggerated but I hope you all get what I mean. I dont want to play as any faction and for it to feel 60% like any other. I want them to feel very different.

Your version of balance applied to bowling balls sounds like you just want to explode them all. The majority of the balancing is going to be done during and after Beta, the players who prefer their faction can give devs feedback about how they would like it to play/feel.

*sigh* I am hoping for a Beta announcement for Christmas/New Years.

SuperMorto · 2011-12-07, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tapman

Your version of balance applied to bowling balls sounds like you just want to explode them all. The majority of the balancing is going to be done during and after Beta, the players who prefer their faction can give devs feedback about how they would like it to play/feel.

*sigh* I am hoping for a Beta announcement for Christmas/New Years.

I know my ideas seem crazy. And they are. But im not wanting the above, I would just like to see some good fitting differences between the faction and not have them all feeling the same.

Thing is shouting and making a big deal about things gets you noticed. I just dont want to see Planetside 2 fail. I only moan and twist about the game as I want it to succeed.

Peacemaker · 2011-12-07, 05:45 PM

VS AI Max was bad ass. I pwned many on my VS alt with that thing, and jump jets on the max's WAS OP. No other max could suddenly be ontop of your tower. Adapt and survive.

DviddLeff · 2011-12-07, 05:49 PM

I don't mind VS losing the jets, but I do wonder what it would be like if there were more differentiation between the factions.

However we are seeing radically different projectiles for VS weapons compared to the NC and TR, and seeing differences between the aircraft.

NewSith · 2011-12-07, 05:52 PM

I understand that you're proposing something equal to chess without bishops for one player and castles for the other one.

If that's how it is, I say having all sides having everything is fine. Otherwise it might be that to do something you like and you're best at you'd have to select empire that you don't want to play...