Variety - The spice of life

Xaine · 2011-12-30, 01:09 AM

One of the aspects of MMOs that concern me the most at the moment is the massive lack of variety. This never used to be the case:

Take a look at the last Planetside for example, the three Empires were different. Very different. The guns handled differently, as did the viechals. In some situation the MCG would beat the Jackhammer, and vice versa.

The difference between the AV weapons was great. Three really DIFFERENT weapons that made it interesting and cool to play around with.

Taking it further and using a universal example, WoW had faction restrictions of the Shaman and the Paladin and each class brought different stuff to the table.

Now, look at WoW today. The classes have been reduced and devolved so much that there are now about 5 different buffs in the entire game.

The whole industry seems to be moving towards this culture of homogenisation, because everyone is so shit scared of everything not being perfectly balanced, or terrified that one class might be slightly better. Fairly soon we're all going to be playing grey blobs, and as we level up we'll change colour to brown or a darker brown depending on which talent tree we go down.

I'm fairly certain Planetside 2 isn't going this way, but please dear god, we want DIFFERENT tanks for each faction, and different guns and things that actually make the game interesting.

Hopefully common pool will take care of this so the ES stuff will be truly unique, i'd just hate to see the game lose one of the things that made it great.

Hamma · 2011-12-30, 06:04 AM

We already know the factions will be different (yet similar to how they were in PS1) so hopefully there is a real variety to playing each empire as it always was.

I know exactly what you are saying and this is not a new trend in gaming or real life

Nowadays everyone is a winner, everyone gets a trophy and are patted on the back even when they fail. That same trend made its way into gaming.

SKYeXile · 2011-12-30, 07:16 AM

With wow, thats what you get when a games becomes an Esport, it has to be balanced or it does not get the esport attention it attempts to be balanced in 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5. But IMO, i think they had it more right 10v10 in WSG, class balance matters less then and it comes down to teamwork in all fronts, not just 1 skirmish like arena. Planetsides, WSG x100 indivisdual class and weapon balance are rather meaningless to a degree, aslong as the overall empire balance is there with each having stengths and weaknesses, then the game will hopefully be nothing short of amazing....though im sure there will still be jackhammer complaints.

CrystalViolet · 2011-12-30, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

I know exactly what you are saying and this is not a new trend in gaming or real life

Nowadays everyone is a winner, everyone gets a trophy and are patted on the back even when they fail. That same trend made its way into gaming.

Ah the old days when getting to the end of a game actually took skill and patience. "you beat Mega Man 2? Damn!"

Figment · 2011-12-30, 12:30 PM

Someone had to.

FriendlyFire · 2011-12-30, 12:39 PM

Can we mark the Lasher as extra spicey?

Crator · 2011-12-30, 12:54 PM

That's a spicy VS pepper --->

Shogun · 2011-12-30, 01:59 PM

that´s so right!

so you vs guys please stop complaining about nonvs stuff that is cool. if you want it, play the empire with that feature!

for me choosing the empire was not a matter of my favorite color, it was a choice of features!
i like weapons that reward the skill of the player by firing slow, but hitting hard.
so i choosed nc!

terran was for people who like the spray and pray type of weapon that can fill a whole room with bullets in a short time!

and vs was for the unskilled, who couldn´t cope with ballistic arcs and who like heavy assault weapons that hit even if they cannot aim.

this diversity was great and has to stay no matter what!
i would even say screw all common pool and make every unit and weapon empire specific, like in starcraft, but i guess that´s a step too far.

Shogun · 2011-12-30, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Someone had to.

didn´t know that shai hulud´s eyes turn blue as well ;-)

Traak · 2011-12-30, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Nowadays everyone is a winner, everyone gets a trophy and are patted on the back even when they fail. That same trend made its way into gaming.

I wondered why it was that I would see
so-and-so(killspam weapon)someone in my squad

- and a big XP hit for it. I'm getting XP for my squad getting killed? Sure has looked like that a lot.

Xaine · 2011-12-30, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

With wow, thats what you get when a games becomes an Esport, it has to be balanced or it does not get the esport attention it attempts to be balanced in 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5. But IMO, i think they had it more right 10v10 in WSG, class balance matters less then and it comes down to teamwork in all fronts, not just 1 skirmish like arena. Planetsides, WSG x100 indivisdual class and weapon balance are rather meaningless to a degree, aslong as the overall empire balance is there with each having stengths and weaknesses, then the game will hopefully be nothing short of amazing....though im sure there will still be jackhammer complaints.

Indeed.

I understand why it was done for WoW, although for all the shit they put the classes through to make them more balanced and less interesting, WoW is no longer a proper E-Sport.

PS2 could well be an E-sport, but on the 10+ scale, at the very least.

Could you think about an E-Sport with 100 people per team? How brilliant would that be. So many different types of tactics and equipment to use. I think it would be incredible :P

Shogun · 2011-12-30, 05:47 PM

but to be an official esport game, ps2 would need instances or dedicated sports servers, reserved for official matches only. and since this will not happen, ps2 can stay deep and doesn´t need to be dumpened down for esports ;-)

if on planetside even funerals are carped-bombed, imagine what would happen to an official esports match...

Xaine · 2011-12-30, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Shogun

but to be an official esport game, ps2 would need instances or dedicated sports servers, reserved for official matches only. and since this will not happen, ps2 can stay deep and doesn´t need to be dumpened down for esports ;-)

if on planetside even funerals are carped-bombed, imagine what would happen to an official esports match...

All good points, and i actually really relate with where you're coming from. I don't want to see this game changed because of Esports, i want that same deep and versatile combat that PS1 had.

However, if they want this game to survive and be a true MMO they need to push into new areas. They already mentioned a sandbox type of advancement in the game which really excites me, as they seem to want to push the game beyond the original Planetside boundaries.

Esports is a possibility. 100vs100 instanced games. While its not 'Planetside', it could be an interesting addition. No other game can claim that. Think about what it would do for the game in terms of publicity and recognition on a global scale. If that doesn't attract millions of players, i don't know what will.

SKYeXile · 2011-12-30, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Shogun

but to be an official esport game, ps2 would need instances or dedicated sports servers, reserved for official matches only. and since this will not happen, ps2 can stay deep and doesn´t need to be dumpened down for esports ;-)

if on planetside even funerals are carped-bombed, imagine what would happen to an official esports match...

Yea trying to do TOD 5v5 or 10v10 or something, does not work, you get people instant actioning to you...so fail.

CutterJohn · 2011-12-30, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Xaine

Hopefully common pool will take care of this so the ES stuff will be truly unique, i'd just hate to see the game lose one of the things that made it great.

I would pay extra money to play on a server that had no empire specific gear. I hate that you are locked into an empire, and hence a specific playstyle, because that is where your friends are and where your character is. I don't care if the fight is noticeably different when fighting the red team instead of the purple team or blue team.

I wouldn't mind minor differences, like how MA was dealt with. Thats fine. A bit of flavor. I hate that entire classes of weaponry and capabilities are locked from you. No NC weapons designer can see the perks of having direct fire AV weapon? VS MAX designers can't recognize the useful traits of flak?

Variety is indeed the spice of life. Empire differences serve to stifle it, not promote it, since you have access to less.

Everyone always says Starcraft is a great example, and it is, because in Starcraft, at the end of a round, you can switch. And you can team up with friends even if they are playing a different race that match. This is not true in Planetside, where you are rather stuck with your decisions due to character advancement and that you cannot easily play with people of another empire.