Planetside 2 and New Content.

Graywolves · 2012-01-17, 08:44 AM

Ok, I know this sounds very far off and I expect to see all types of speculation from everyone on here on things like navy, flying fortresses, space, etc. W.e you guys see when you take magical things and see magical things.

What I am most concerned about though is that when the Core Game is released it feels like the core game is released. And if not everything that should have been in on release that SOE is honest about it and doesn't play it off like there's a big new content patch.

Reason I bring this up is because I'm really sick of SWTOR, it feels like EA rushed its release and now they're overhyping these big patches with concrete dates while there are so many unworked bugs in the game. As a consumer I simply find it insulting. It's like I paid to go to a museum and one of the areas I expected to experience during this payment is off limits and restricted because it's not ready. But they have a big sign saying how awesome this new exhibit will be and how I should totally pay for submission next month just to see it.

Now that I have my reasons out. I think that generally SOE will do a better job at managing the release of new content as there is more experience by the company. I just don't want "new" content being pushed into an incomplete core while it's covered in bugs.

Xaine · 2012-01-17, 09:00 AM

I think we should be ok. The nice thing about PS is that compared to games like SWTOR, there is less ground to cover in terms of testing. No mob Ai or spawn behaviour, no reems of quests or dungeons to play test over and over. This game is about the gameplay, not about the fathoms of content piled over it.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a metric shit-ton of testing to do, But it's all pretty obvious and straight forward. Client related bugs, not breaking the scenery, weapon balancing etc. All of which we will do in beta just by playing the game.

Gandhi · 2012-01-17, 09:06 AM

I guess we can help with this during the beta. Speaking as a developer the worst bugs are often found when people do something unexpected, or use a part of the program in an unintended way. So while you're having fun in the beta devote some time to breaking the game. The dancing exploit in SWTOR was a perfect example of this kind of bug, but sometimes it's as simple as spamming an action key at a certain point.

Graywolves · 2012-01-17, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Xaine

I think we should be ok. The nice thing about PS is that compared to games like SWTOR, there is less ground to cover in terms of testing. No mob Ai or spawn behaviour, no reems of quests or dungeons to play test over and over. This game is about the gameplay, not about the fathoms of content piled over it.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a metric shit-ton of testing to do, But it's all pretty obvious and straight forward. Client related bugs, not breaking the scenery, weapon balancing etc. All of which we will do in beta just by playing the game.

Of course. I just don't even want to hear about something ever being released until I know it's ready, no matter how much I'm doing the pee-my-pants dance for information. Or even talk of new things being put on top of something that still needs a ton of fixing.

Another problem I had which is completley irrelevant to PS2 is that in previous MMO's if I reported a bug that effected me unable to get something, a GM would be like "thanks, here's the stuff you can't get." Instead every bug report (all six) have the exact same response and 3 of them took over 2 days for response. But that's just an explanation of my lack of faith in game development right now.

I'm thinking that Forgelight shouldn't have as many issues and that if it does have issues it should be easier to fix without causing more issues. If a Blue Post could console me I'd be a comfortable wolfy.

Originally Posted by Gandhi

I guess we can help with this during the beta. Speaking as a developer the worst bugs are often found when people do something unexpected, or use a part of the program in an unintended way. So while you're having fun in the beta devote some time to breaking the game. The dancing exploit in SWTOR was a perfect example of this kind of bug, but sometimes it's as simple as spamming an action key at a certain point.

I'll be sure to do as much crazy stuff as I can when/if I get into Beta.

-edited- removed profanity

Tapman · 2012-01-17, 09:27 AM

Every indication I've seen from the Devs is that they are aware that it is not in anyone's best interests to rush the thing out the door before it is ready. It sucks that you're being dicked around by some other company but SOE is simply not EA, if they upset you so much then just stop giving them your money.

On a side note, that game looks like WoW with a new skin. What kind of nonsense is that?

Gandhi · 2012-01-17, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Tapman

On a side note, that game looks like WoW with a new skin. What kind of nonsense is that?

SOP for a lot of big studios today unfortunately. "Game X sold well, so lets make our game exactly the same, that way it'll sell to".

Worst part is it usually works.

Crator · 2012-01-17, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Tapman

On a side note, that game looks like WoW with a new skin. What kind of nonsense is that?

It essentially is WoW with a new skin/cut-scenes (better graphics/animations imo) with a few innovative designs... The question is, what did you expect? That's what MMORPGs are. Unless a developer comes up with something totally different they will always be like that...

Graywolves · 2012-01-17, 09:46 AM

I know I've done alot of EA QQing but I prefer to keep it relevant to PS2 and SOE.

Giving content when ready and not pushing new content on top of broken content.

There's a thread in General Games where we can Rage more.

I just feel like we need to really make sure this game works and that the company doesn't lose sight of what it's doing.

I don't know if there's an overseeing producer like EA or something that's going to push hard dates on them and trick hyping campaigns.

Honestly after this ordeal and my downvotes to hell on Reddit I can't wait to get into Beta and destroy my machine trying to find every possible broken thing so that it's ready on release.

My main concern isn't the bugs on release though, it's the sense of a complete core game. While in RPGs that would be PvP, endgame, etc. I think in PS2 it's like making sure we have the proper "circle of life" or food chain on release.

by the last paragraph I mean like every empire has what they need and the other empires their proper mirror when operating in mixed units. We have most of our transportation, vehicles, equipment, to effectively play the game as we would expect to.

New content shouldn't feel like we're in a building during contruction and they are adding another elevator. Overall I think SOE will avoid something like that and new content will feel completley new content.

Tapman · 2012-01-17, 10:06 AM

http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1200367/planetside_2_beta_gameplay_development_interview.h tml

Can you describe your approach to the PlanetSide 2 beta? What can beta participants expect, and what key trends and feedback will you be keeping an eye out for during testing?

Once we get to beta, we’ll be looking both at players' direct feedback via bugs and message boards, as well as analyzing data that will be collected and aggregated.

The biggest benefits to a big beta are load and stress testing, testing across a diverse collection of hardware configurations, getting large sample sizes to determine if weapons and vehicles are balanced, and so on. We won’t be shipping anything until we’re all proud of it.

Are you keen to push back launch if the beta throws up unexpected issues? How important is this process to you as a studio?
For MMO games beta is critical. There is a lot we can do to test gameplay and mechanics in studio, but getting the massive scale needed to ensure the game really works requires getting real players in.

It’s also critical to determine if our player progression curves are too punishing or too lenient, find exploits, balance issues and so on. Beta for us as a company is an incredibly critical phase of development.

Graywolves · 2012-01-17, 10:35 AM

Thank you for digging that up for me. Things could still happen but I atleast feel like we have real dedication and a legit "we'll give it when it's ready" instead of a "it's ready...whoops give us a few more days."

-edited- removed profanity
=edited= mistype on editted*

Coreldan · 2012-01-17, 11:04 AM

We got to remember that not everybody who works on the game can work on engine bugs. There are artists, modellers and whatnot. They shouldnt sit on their hands until the few codemonkeys make the game bug-free (which doesnt even exist).

BlazingSun · 2012-01-17, 11:54 AM

Since this game will be free to play, we won't have as much right to complain, when things like that happen.

The WAR MMO had the same problems. Promised content didn't make it in release or just sucked. I had pre-ordered my game but waited several months after the release, before I started to play ... When I think about how much Mythic (the dev studio) messup up this game, it still annoys me. All their mess-ups combined were almost as bad as "Core Combat + BFRs", if not worse.

PoisonTaco · 2012-01-17, 12:08 PM

Let's not put too much faith in PS2. I'm sure it's going to be a fun game but one thing to keep in mind is that this is still SOE. The same SOE that has released many MMO's that were simply not ready. This is the same SOE that made the NGE and the same folks behind EQII and changes to the original Planetside.

Team at SOE should be very aware of what's at stake when releasing a new MMO. Given the experience at the company and of many of the developers working on PS2, there won't be much excuse for a botched release. Free to play or not, if the game isn't fun from the get go, then people won't be as willing to spend any money in the store.

On one hand SOE is known for making mistakes with their MMO's, big and small. On the other they've seen great success and great failure so they've got the experience to know what they're doing.

Hamma · 2012-01-17, 01:39 PM

I think we have seen enough "This is SOE" posts - we all know the stakes here.

Lonehunter · 2012-01-17, 01:58 PM

I know exactly what you mean with Swtor's content. The game is missing several very important design features. Sure the game is playable, even enjoyable. But the fact is it's unfinished, and now they get to add this content later while bragging "Hey look! We're working hard for you!"

I'm definitely worried about this in Planetside2. They've all ready admitted to adding more vehicles and continents after release, I just hope that isn't an excuse to not make enough for launch.