Need help getting a new rig.

[mefy]

1. What is your budget and does that include shipping/taxes?

2-3k

2. Where do you live?

Hawaii

3. What do you need this computer to do (like gaming, Photoshop, and so on)?

Gaming, some photoshop etc.

4. What parts will you need for the computer? Please list what parts specifically.

Basically everything except monitor.

5. Are you reusing any parts for this computer? If so please say what parts.

None

6. What kind of monitor/resolution do you have or want to get to use for the computer?

Dont know monitor details, but I got about a 20 inch monitor. Might just buy a new one.

7. Do you have a legit OS? If so what OS and is it 32-bit or 64-bit?

new comp

8. What are you looking for the motherboard to have feature wise? Like SLI, Crossfire, Firewire, USB 3.0, Sata 6.0 Gb/s, and so on.

Well, definitely USB 3.0 since I have an external HDD thats 3.0 compatible. Are solid state hard drives really much better then SATA? Will a solid state HDD impact performance in games such as PS2? If so, then im down for a small one, lets say 256gb. I would like SLI or Crossfire, but seems pretty expensive. If it will make a dramatic difference in PS2 then sure why not if its within budget.

9. Any plans to overclock the CPU or GPU?

Not really, doesn't seem like it would improve the longevity of the computer?

10. What time kind of time frame are you planning on ordering these parts?

Not really anything specific, id like to order it once beta comes out I guess.

My problem is, im completely out of the loop as far as computers go these days. Id hate to get a new rig and then one month later have some new component come out that redefines everything like the i7 boards and stuff.

Overall, I wanted to go with Alienware at first because ive heard good things, but it just seems to expensive. I really don't want to build my own rig because of time and I generally just don't trust myself these days. Im sure there are other sites, or maybe you can just build it for me for a cost? :P

All in all, I want a good computer that will play PS2 flawlessly and look purdy. I need and appreciate all feedback!! thanks.

[Vancha]

Both Ivy Bridge (Intel's next offerings) and Kepler (Nvidias 28nm GPUs) are probably coming out around April/May time. I'd wait until then if you can.

[NivexQ]

Originally Posted by mefy

1. What is your budget and does that include shipping/taxes?

2-3k

That's probably more than you'll need for a top of the line PC, unless you plan on making it extra beefy.

8. What are you looking for the motherboard to have feature wise? Like SLI, Crossfire, Firewire, USB 3.0, Sata 6.0 Gb/s, and so on.

Well, definitely USB 3.0 since I have an external HDD thats 3.0 compatible. Are solid state hard drives really much better then SATA? Will a solid state HDD impact performance in games such as PS2? If so, then im down for a small one, lets say 256gb. I would like SLI or Crossfire, but seems pretty expensive. If it will make a dramatic difference in PS2 then sure why not if its within budget.

SSDs are much much much faster than HDDs, but are extremely expensive at the moment because of flood damage in the area of production. If you feel like spending the money, I would recommend getting a SSD for your boot drive. I'm talking ~120Gb. Getting a SSD for storage just isn't worth it at the moment.




My problem is, im completely out of the loop as far as computers go these days. Id hate to get a new rig and then one month later have some new component come out that redefines everything like the i7 boards and stuff.

Overall, I wanted to go with Alienware at first because ive heard good things, but it just seems to expensive. I really don't want to build my own rig because of time and I generally just don't trust myself these days. Im sure there are other sites, or maybe you can just build it for me for a cost? :P

Alienware is such a rip off, you're paying for the brand name and the case when you go with them (Although I really do like their cases
If you don't want to build your own PC but you still want a good selection at a decent price, I'd go with iBuypower

All in all, I want a good computer that will play PS2 flawlessly and look purdy. I need and appreciate all feedback!! thanks.[/COLOR]

I know you said you don't trust yourself, but you should really consider building your own computer. It's a satisfying experience, and it makes it that much easier when you want to upgrade down the line. If you want to, check out Neweggs How to Build a Computer videos. Even if you don't want to build, part 1 might help with choosing your parts.

[mefy]

Just read this on the web, can anyone verify its authenticity?

"If you are a gamer, the focus should be on the graphics card, more than the cpu. For that, a strong quad will do the job. Few games use more than two or three cores, making hyperthreading and 6 core cpu's of marginal value for gaming. Today, the sandy bridge 2500K is the gamer's cpu of choice in the $200 price range. It is so good, particularly when overclocked, that a future upgrade to ivy pridge will likely not be needed to run the strongest of graphics cards. The 22nm ivy bridge follow on's to the 2500K will be compatible with the P67 and Z68 chipsets if necessary.

If, you run multi core enabled apps, then the more cores the better. It is looking like the upcoming bulldozer 8 core offerings will be good value. But, we have yet to see any benchmarks. Historically, Intel has had cpu's that are more effective per clock, so a comparison without benchmarks will be difficult.
And, a little later this year, the sandy bridge-E will give bulldozer a run for the money at the highest price range. Particularly if you value 32-64gb of ram. "

[NivexQ]

Originally Posted by mefy

Just read this on the web, can anyone verify its authenticity?

"If you are a gamer, the focus should be on the graphics card, more than the cpu. For that, a strong quad will do the job. Few games use more than two or three cores, making hyperthreading and 6 core cpu's of marginal value for gaming. Today, the sandy bridge 2500K is the gamer's cpu of choice in the $200 price range. It is so good, particularly when overclocked, that a future upgrade to ivy pridge will likely not be needed to run the strongest of graphics cards. The 22nm ivy bridge follow on's to the 2500K will be compatible with the P67 and Z68 chipsets if necessary.

If, you run multi core enabled apps, then the more cores the better. It is looking like the upcoming bulldozer 8 core offerings will be good value. But, we have yet to see any benchmarks. Historically, Intel has had cpu's that are more effective per clock, so a comparison without benchmarks will be difficult.
And, a little later this year, the sandy bridge-E will give bulldozer a run for the money at the highest price range. Particularly if you value 32-64gb of ram. "

Yeah, that's true. Few games utilize even 4 cpus. Only Battlefield 3 and The Old Republic come to mind, so unless you are a heavy multitasker, you don't need to spring for a six/eight core cpu. Personally, I prefer AMD products over Intel because I don't see the price difference as justified.

[Fenrys]

Do you really want to spend that whole budget all at once? You'll have to dip into the diminishing returns side of the price: performance ratio to use it all.

You should probably wait until April. There will be new CPU's from Intel, and new GPU's from both AMD and NVIDIA.

Here's a partial build list with a decent price: performance ratio :

CPU: Ivy Bridge i5 or i7, ~$220-$320
Motherboard: To be determined, ~$175
GPU: 7000 series or 600 series, ~$200-$400

RAM: 2x4GB, 1600MHz, tight timings, $80
SSD: Samsung 830 256GB, $400, or Crucial M4 64GB, $80
HDD: Spinpoint F3 1TB, $160 (these used to cost $50-$75 until Thailand flooded, and the price will come back down eventually)
PSU: Seasonic 850w, $120 (power supplies are most efficient at 50%-75% load and may become up to 30% weaker over the first 5 years, so it's good to buy more watts than you need initially)
Full tower: Antec 1200, $165, or Mid Tower: NZXT Source 210, $50
Monitor: 23.6" Asus, $180
Mouse: G500, $60
Keyboard: Ducky DK 9008-G2 w/ Cherry MX Brown switches, $120, mechanical, durable, the last keyboard you'll ever own. I've got 2 of them, one in my bedroom and one in the office - the one in the office uses Cherry MX Blue switches which are nicer for typing but not as good as Browns are for gaming.

Total: $1,445 - $2,180

*edit*
Forgot the OS.
Windows 7 Pro, $140, but you can usually get it on sale if you buy it as part of a combo with your CPU or Mobo

[Mutant]

Originally Posted by Fenrys

Do you really want to spend that whole budget all at once? You'll have to dip into the diminishing returns side of the price: performance ratio to use it all.


Item=N82E16824236052]Monitor: 23.6" Asus, $180
[url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?[/url]

Total: $1,445 - $2,180

Instead of some cheap ass TN panel use the remaining budget on a nice 30" ISP at ~ $1000
As Photoshop was mentioned I would presume colour accuracy is of at least some importance.

For gaming the important thing is to have no scaler (image processing) to give good input lag.

Good Gaming 30" monitors are:

Dell 3007WFP-HC (LM300WQ3)
HP LP3065 (LM300WQ3) or since that post the newer ZR30W
LG W3000H (LM300WQ5)
Doublesight DS-305W (LM300WQ3)

see http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?...post1034050588 for more info.

[Goku]

If you want to wait till April when beta may launch we really cannot pull any major pre build together. There is going to be new motherboards, cpus, and video cards out by then so it will be pretty different from anything done today. Concerning what to do between now and then I suggest looking at you tube videos on how to build a computer properly. There is no reason to pay someone $100+ to assemble one for you.

@ Fenrys - I cannot suggest anyone spending $80 on 8GB of ram. You can pick up a $40 8GB ram kit for half the cost and it will be the same performance even if its 1333MHz will looser timings. Depending on what the OP wants a 850W PSU will likely be overkill too.

[NivexQ]

Originally Posted by Goku

@ Fenrys - I cannot suggest anyone spending $80 on 8GB of ram. You can pick up a $40 8GB ram kit for half the cost and it will be the same performance even if its 1333MHz will looser timings. Depending on what the OP wants a 850W PSU will likely be overkill too.

Is there a huge performance difference between cas latency 7 and 9? I know there's a difference, but I didn't think it would be that major.

This is what I got. I'd recommend it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145347

[Goku]

Originally Posted by NivexQ

Is there a huge performance difference between cas latency 7 and 9? I know there's a difference, but I didn't think it would be that major.

This is what I got. I'd recommend it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145347

There is no real world difference unless you are using synthetic benchmarks or perhaps making use of software that servers use. For gaming you will see no added benefit. A $35 basic G.skill 8gb ddr3 1333Mhz kit is just as good of a kit that higher speed tighter timing corsair 8gb kit is.

[Fenrys]

I would not buy that RAM either. It may give you a few extra fps (0-5) though, and here are some benchmarks. Personally, I would not buy a GPU or CPU that cost more than ~$200 either, or a SSD that cost more than ~$100, but what else are you going to do with a 2k budget other than dip into diminishing returns to maximize performance at all costs?

I guess you could save up a bit more and get one of these.

About the power supply: a system like the one I specced will probably draw almost 500w. A good 500w PSU would be the minimum you could get away with using, and it would run at ~90% load when gaming. Paying extra for a PSU that will run in the ideal 50%-75% of maximum load range (i.e. 666w-1000w) will save $ on your electric bills over time. I would not call it overkill until it goes over 1000w, and even that would be OK if the user was thinking about grabbing a 2nd GPU for SLI/X-Fire or dedicated Phys-X.

[Goku]

A 850W is over kill. Even a system with a overclocked Core i7 3960 X (Intel SB-E 6 core CPU) and a GTX 580 pull 425W at peak power consumption under Metro 2033 here. Therefore a 600W is plenty for most users out and PSUs from what I have read are more efficient near their maximum load. With that a 850W will be less efficient then a 600W under max load.

[Fenrys]

Wiki agrees with me about the 50%-75% thing, and the 80+ standards require higher efficiency at 50% than at 100%.

425w is 50% of 850w, and the 850w PSU will get weaker over time.

Kepler will probably use less power than a 580, so it might make sense to go with a 750w instead.

If Kepler uses as much power as the 7970 in the Anand article, I still think 850w would be the upper limit of what's reasonable. It would begin life at slightly less than 50% load when gaming, and creep up over 50% load as it ages. If the computer will be used for many years to come, you'll still end up saving more money on your electric bill than the extra you payed for a larger PSU.

[Goku]

I have seen anyone recommend a 750W-850W PSU for a single GPU before. It doesn't make sense whatsoever to go with that. I only ever see people needing those for higher end multi GPU setups.

A 600W is plenty for most users out there unless they need to up their power needed given their components. I highly doubt there will be any savings over the long run like you mention anyway. Besides people are on finite budgets. Spending the extra $50+ on a PSU like you are looking for could mean the difference between a higher end GPU or CPU.

[Fenrys]

A quality 500w PSU would probably run any single card build just fine.

You can save $50 up front and still have a little headroom by getting something like this 620w unit instead.



The amount of savings depends on the efficiency of the two PSU's, how long they will be fully loaded, and the cost of electricity in your area.

Lets assume a computer runs at full load for 1 year straight (hyperbole, but the same electricity may be used over several years):

Larger PSU 90% efficient when gaming:
425 watts * 1.10 * 8760 hours in a year = 4095300 watt-hours/1000 * $0.11 per kilowatt-hour = $450.48/year

80% efficient PSU:
425 * 1.20 * 8760 = $491.44/year

Savings: $41 per year of full load


A larger PSU will be less efficient when the computer is idle.

Larger PSU 70% efficient when idle:
133 * 1.3 * 8760 = $166.61/year

Smaller PSU 80%
133 * 1.2 * 8760 = $153.79/year

Expense: $12.82 per year idle


After 2 years of being turned on, assuming the computer is loaded half the time it's on, you'll save $28.18 by going with the larger PSU.

It'll probably take something more like 5 years to actually reach that level of use.

Will you upgrade to a more power hungry system in the next 5 years? Is it worth $22 now to give yourself that option knowing that you'll have to spend $120 later if you change your mind?

That's up to the person buying it.

Like Goku says, a 600w PSU will be just fine.