Early player balancing

Cosmical · 2012-02-24, 08:28 PM

I was a big fan of the original Planetside’s introduction to combat. If you didn’t bother with the tutorial (which no one in their right mind did), the game just threw you into the thick of it. With you ready to make your own mistakes, and learn your own combat lessons the hard way.

This won’t fly in PS2. I’m sure modern conventions are going to be there, a detailed tutorial, maybe some videos explaining combat basics, heck the class system will go a long way to make things easier to pick up.

My concern is that PS2 may be a lot more hostile an environment for a new player than we appreciate. Even with the mission system that will point out where a player is supposed to go, and placing them in an active squad.

For example, from the eyes of a mosquito pilot playing the game for the first time. On the original Planetside this worked perfectly, a level 30 BR pilot’s jet was no more powerful than your own, and all he had to counter you was experience. And your learning curve to victory was becoming as good as those individuals so that you could hold your own.

In Planetside 2, I’m going to be facing down a Reaver veteran in my mosquito. Who has better weapons (slight 25% upgrade still counts), better armour (at the expense of something else), counter measures (not sure) and better knowledge of how and where to fight, and in a squad with other veterans watching his back. It could potentially be a massacre. Especially with the games time unlock system that is essentially saying to a player “you know that guy who just killed you, he’s 6 months ahead of you. And forever will be. Now die!”

Maybe I’m blowing this out of proportion, but it’s mainly out of curiosity. I’m wondering how you reward people with power, equipment, skills, side grades and resource bought weapons. And then expect a level one to not be infuriated by his multiple defeats?

DayOne · 2012-02-24, 08:31 PM

If they make it so even the basic models of vehicles are usable this wont be an issue. The only changes made are so your vehicle suits your own personal playstyle a little better.

NewSith · 2012-02-24, 08:35 PM

My answer to this is - if you're colonel lvl99 in BF3 and you get reset will you still be able to pwn a guy that haven't been reset? Be it jet vs jet, infantry vs infantry or tank vs tank? The answer is yes. You just need to multiply original PS pacing in your head and you'll see that this balancing is not an issue.

Knightwyvern · 2012-02-24, 08:36 PM

An older hat in planetside still had the same "veteran" advantages of experience etc, that's always the case and always should be.

As for the upgrades (sidegrades are just that,) because of the time based skill mechanic, a newer player will eventually get the same upgrades even if they just plain suck. I don't think it will be much of a hindrance. We'll see during beta I suppose.

Cosmical · 2012-02-24, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

My answer to this is - if you're colonel lvl99 in BF3 and you get reset will you still be able to pwn a guy that haven't been reset? Be it jet vs jet.

Unless you get blown out of the sky by heat seekers because you havent unlocked flares yet

But i get your point. In my mind im picturing it like EVE, sure im fighting another guy in a Frigate class ship, but we arnt even in the same league.

When i guess it will be more like BF3, where someone has just unlocked a slightly faster assault rifle.

I still think their should be some kindof boost to new players so they dont run off in a huff. I think for every two people that realise that PS2 is revolutionary in its approach, 1 will delete the game in a tantrum and never come back. Question is what can you do to keep that guy from feeling outclassed and outgunned?

Knightwyvern · 2012-02-24, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmical

Unless you get blown out of the sky by heat seekers because you havent unlocked flares yet

But i get your point. In my mind im picturing it like EVE, sure im fighting another guy in a Frigate class ship, but we arnt even in the same league.

When i guess it will be more like BF3, where someone has just unlocked a slightly faster assault rifle.

I still think their should be some kindof boost to new players so they dont run off in a huff. I think for every two people that realise that PS2 is revolutionary in its approach, 1 will delete the game in a tantrum and never come back. Question is what can you do to keep that guy from feeling outclassed and outgunned?

In my eyes, getting owned by an AA missile because you don't have the flare yet just galvanizes me into getting that flare faster, playing more, harder, more intelligently.

It would suck me in, not push me out.

DaddyTickles · 2012-02-24, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmical

I still think their should be some kindof boost to new players so they dont run off in a huff. I think for every two people that realise that PS2 is revolutionary in its approach, 1 will delete the game in a tantrum and never come back. Question is what can you do to keep that guy from feeling outclassed and outgunned?

I think everyone best get comfortable with the idea that they are going to do a lot of dying. No need to get all oriental and worry about losing face.

Cosmical · 2012-02-25, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by DaddyTickles

I think everyone best get comfortable with the idea that they are going to do a lot of dying. No need to get all oriental and worry about losing face.

It not so much about the DEGRADING quality of losing. Im sure you guys have played other FPS's, take Call of Duty for example. There are situations where i have pulled the trigger on a guy first, but because he has a better gun unlocked at a higher level, he wins. Through no fault of my own, i was outclassed by something i dont have access or control over yet.

Although from the new Weapons Webcast, i think a few of my issues have been resolved. Seems that weapons will be suitably limited and altered, so you probably wont feel unfairly killed, because you understand that, that guy had a faster firing gun than you.

I still think there should be a suitable integration into the game.

I just had an idea that each squad has a Newbie slot. And they have a random new player (between level 1 - 10) assigned to their squad, its none negotiable for all squads of all factions.

This newbie gets to see a squad in action, and the squad itself gets an exp bonus for essentially training a new player in how the game works.

Would do wonders for in game communication, where every squad would be aware that it is there resonsibility to keep the new player up to speed, for a suitable reward that is worthy of their time, and welcome them to the game.

And if experienced players dont want that, they can remove the newbie slot. And forgoe the exp bonus, and extra man power.

And for those of you that are saying, "you will be put into a squad anyway". It isnt the same thing. I played PS1 for two years before i even saw anything boardering on team work, beyond throwing Zerg at a base wall. Automatic match making doesnt always work.

DaddyTickles · 2012-02-25, 10:15 AM

Rock, paper, scissors.

The more fitted weapon will usually win although vairables such as luck and skill will have an effect.

And that is probably as it should be, Light Assault goes one on one with HA and the outcome should be pretty forgone. A long time veteran Light Assault goes one on one with a brand new Light Assault and the same sort of expectation is not unreasonable give the upgrades available to the vet. However, there will always be variables.

ringring · 2012-02-25, 12:03 PM

In ps1:
Amp station benefit or Cyssor gives vehicle shields.
Health mod or cave bennies give 20% health boost.

So it wasn't quite a level playing field.

In ps2: I think without resources the sidegrades aren't available you asre only able to pull the vanilla vehicle .... I think (someone contradict me if I picked this up wrongly).

I'm not worried ..... a balancing issue and beta should sort it out.