Its not "specs", its unlocks.

BorisBlade · 2012-03-13, 01:57 AM

I see this mistake constantly, not only from devs but in discussions and we need to be clear on this since its very important to the game.

The only customization or actual "spec-ing" is in your loadouts on your soldier or vehicle. The "certs", arent specs. Specs means specialization in where you choose to take some things while giving up others in exchange, everyone is different and you can only get a set amount of things making you specialized. But in PS2, they are just simple unlocks, you give up only in the short term, not long term.

While at first, when you are limited on cert points, you kinda are specialized, however that wont last long. There are no caps on how many you can get so you eventually get it all, even if there's alot, you will still have most all that you want after a reasonable time played and then can keep getting more til you eventually have em all.

Its really no different than the BR40 problem, you can do everything, maybe not all at once due to loadout/class just like in ps1, but you have every single thing and can do it all with a simple loadout/class switch.

Personally I find that uninteresting and boring and would prefer some cap system to it so that you actually did have specs to keep it interesting and so that you could actually use it for balancing somewhat. Saying "oh thats not so bad you have to spec for it" means nothing, everyone can do that and they dont lose anything really, there is no cap on how much you can get. You would of course have some way to reset points every so often at a cost and could spec again so you are still able to do whatever but would actually be specialized rather than the br40 syndrome we get with the current ps2 set up.

Specializing feels fun and interesting and presents some cool ideas, unlocks are boring and just more of the solo style mechanics that we are getting way too much of it seems.

Zhane · 2012-03-13, 02:10 AM

Six paragraphs of assumptions and semantic arguments. Check.

Highwind · 2012-03-13, 02:27 AM

Two points:

One, if have a limit on max certs points in this kind of system would mean you need to pre-plan your character from the start (Diablo 2 style) limiting experimenting and freedom to explore a class/vehicle that is outside your normal style. Also they would need to offer a "respec" that would return your certs to their pool to be spent again assuming you messed up (likely for station cash each time). I think both options are a step back and are ultimately less fun in my view then the current open unlock system that should take years to unlock everything.

Two, you don't know what the rate of Cert point gain will be. Does a new character start with a few points to spend? I assume you will be gaining Cert points offline and online passively with their EVE-like-system, given. Then when you are playing actively I assume you will earn Cert points as a percent of EXP earned, for example 1 cert point for every 1000 Exp.

What we don't know is if Cert point gain will slow down at any point in the future, for example 1 cert point for every 1000 Exp until Battle Rank 10, then its 1 cert point for every 2000 Exp until BR 25 (I assume max level), then forever after max level 1 cert point for every 5000 Exp earned (Exp is "earned" but doesn't level you anymore). Under a system like this it would so down Vets from unlocking EVERYTHING, but you have to ask yourself if this is a fun system, but it seems like a totally workable answer to the problem.

Dreamcast · 2012-03-13, 02:31 AM

Huh?

Well I know the vechiles, you give up speed for armor etc...so thats true.\

I know what you are saying since I believe their is no cap for Rank or certs.

But I don't see what is the big deal.

I mean just because somebody can be whatever he wants...doesnt mean he is going to be good.

A persons can buy his way to unlocking everything...I rather have a guy who has one specific thing unlocked and has experience using it and actually being good.

The only reason I can think you have a problem with this is...Is that your jelly that a few players will have everything unlock.

So no I don't see how it will effect balancing...unless one team buys everything in day 1 the game comes out...which wont happen and will be quickly fixed once people naturally unlock shit thru playing.

Zhane · 2012-03-13, 02:41 AM

I... don't think certs are actually something you can buy, unless I'm mistaken.

SKYeXile · 2012-03-13, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Zhane

I... don't think certs are actually something you can buy, unless I'm mistaken.

there seems to be multiple levels of the whole thing but i beleive unlocks such as weapons are brought with station cash or resources.

then specialisation for those weapons or vehicles is done through the cert trees via cert points, which are earned through killing people or missions maybe and earned while offline at a tick of like 1 per min/ 5min/hour, whatever i guess.

Roy Awesome · 2012-03-13, 04:30 AM

No, because you can only have certain upgrades active at a time. It's specialization.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-03-13, 04:42 AM

The eve system gave you a constant xp/h offline or online. It was modifiable by in-game brain upgrades only.

I'm guessing here, but it would be cool to just have say 500xp/h offline and whatever you earn in-game.

I hope it'll take a good long time (2 years) to get to BR40.

In eve it'd take you something stupid like 70 years to "max out"

Skitrel · 2012-03-13, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Zhane

Six paragraphs of assumptions and semantic arguments. Check.

Thread should have ended here.

Dreamcast · 2012-03-13, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Zhane

I... don't think certs are actually something you can buy, unless I'm mistaken.

Well seeing that Planetside is getting ideas from alot of free 2 play games like League of Legends...I am pretty sure they are eventually going to sell cert xp bonus....Like +200 percent more certs per kill or something like that.

I personally have no problem with this...It won't make a player any better, just that he will have more options.

Bonius · 2012-03-13, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

Well seeing that Planetside is getting ideas from alot of free 2 play games like League of Legends...I am pretty sure they are eventually going to sell cert xp bonus....Like +200 percent more certs per kill or something like that.

I personally have no problem with this...It won't make a player any better, just that he will have more options.

They already stated that this was the case (boosters are being implemented into the game).

If I've understood this correctly:

- Cert points enables you to use unlocks within your chosen specialization.
- Further specialization within your chosen piece of equipment increases the amount of available unlocks you have.
- Equipment is unlocked through in-game resources.

So in effect, the XP you gain goes straight into the specialization of the equipment you're currently using.

Correct?

Talek Krell · 2012-03-13, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bonius

So in effect, the XP you gain goes straight into the specialization of the equipment you're currently using.Correct?

That makes sense to me, but I've never been certain how they have it set up.

Winfernal · 2012-03-13, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

Well seeing that Planetside is getting ideas from alot of free 2 play games like League of Legends...I am pretty sure they are eventually going to sell cert xp bonus....Like +200 percent more certs per kill or something like that.

I personally have no problem with this...It won't make a player any better, just that he will have more options.

It's either pay to play, or free to play with cosmetic items and boosts. I believe their goal is to reach out to as many people as possible (saw it in an interview), to make the PS franchise glow with a stable fanbase. The original PS was a little... undermanned?

Therefore, F2P. And they must have their income, somehow...

As you said, you can't buy skill.

Lonehunter · 2012-03-13, 09:25 PM

I read the entire post, and decided the post that wins my "Most Assumptions Award" doesn't really get a constructive reply from me so, thanks for the amusement.

Just wait till beta before you give up on it, and read more actual information they've released.

CutterJohn · 2012-03-13, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

Personally I find that uninteresting and boring and would prefer some cap system to it so that you actually did have specs to keep it interesting and so that you could actually use it for balancing somewhat. Saying "oh thats not so bad you have to spec for it" means nothing, everyone can do that and they dont lose anything really, there is no cap on how much you can get. You would of course have some way to reset points every so often at a cost and could spec again so you are still able to do whatever but would actually be specialized rather than the br40 syndrome we get with the current ps2 set up.

Specializing feels fun and interesting and presents some cool ideas, unlocks are boring and just more of the solo style mechanics that we are getting way too much of it seems.

If you enjoy restricting yourself to some set of skills, then feel free to do so. I do not enjoy it.

People already will naturally specialize by actually getting good at things. Artificial restrictions are not necessary for this. A good fighter pilot is a good fighter pilot because he's spent a ton of hours in the cockpit and knows all the tricks, not because he has access to a jet. Go look at most any TF2 player. They will have 2 or 3 classes they play the vast majority of the time, despite having access to all of them, because thats what they enjoy and thats what they are good at.