Taking elements from modern shooters != "Dumbing down"

Eyeklops · 2012-05-30, 03:14 AM

Seriously, the volume of bullshit being produced about "dumbing down" PS2 over the updated mechanics is so large we are going to need boats just to keep from drowning in recycled tacos. I mean really, it's starting to look like "Hanky the christmas poo" meets "Groundhog Day." The same shit over, and over, and over.

At least play the beta before you whine "somebody stole my cheese." You might find that the updated mechanics from a modern shooter combined with a large scale and persistent world is totally kick ass and not "dumbed down."

I get the feeling that some Planetside vets subconsciously blame COD/BF3 for "stealing" players away from PS1 and this internal blame has manifested into the "Anything COD/BF3 is evil" attitude. Please, please get over this. It's unhealthy.

Edit (added from a later post):

It's ok to see a piece of shit (some game mechanic), examine it (playtest), then determine that it really is a piece of shit for a good reason. It's ok to throw that piece of shit at the developer with a note about your logic on why it's a piece of shit with the hopes that they realize its shit.

It's not cool however, to see a piece of shit, and automatically throw it at the developer just because your not used to that shit with the only reason being "this is shit".

How do you even know what type of shit it really is until you fully examine it? There could be awesome berries in there that make the shit not as bad as you thought. Hell, maybe it's manure and what you see as shit will actually cultivate awesome fucking flowers (population) if you ever gave it a shot.

But no, you won't give it a shot because it's not "your" (PS1) shit. And we all know that "your" shit doesn't stink. Obviously "your" shit is the right way to go, just look at your flowers. PS1 was "the shit" back in the day, but now it's just old shit that needs

I wouldn't blame Higby if he made a "no beta for u" list of the people who have been needlessly dumping bucket after bucket of shit on him and PS2. I would probably fucking high-five him and his hair, then go examine his shit.

SKYeXile · 2012-05-30, 03:29 AM

This is a pre release gaming forum, there's gonna be speculation and commenting along with people who don't always agree with others(on the internet you say? gasp!) probably a good idea to get used to it.

Just like those of us who want a game with more depth that's not just the same old dumbed down shooters we have played nothing else for the past few years tacked onto a persistent world are probably going to have to get used to the game been a dumbed down quasi "realistic" tactical shooter like everything else put out on PC for the last few years.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-05-30, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

I get the feeling that some Planetside vets subconsciously blame COD/BF3 for "stealing" players away from PS1

Quite the opposite, I've lost count of how many people have gone off to play dozens of other games, yet they come back to PS. Infact, I've probably played 50 different games since the release of Planetside, not ONE of them has held my attention for a 1/10th the time PS has.

People 'whine' about mechanics and options being removed from the game and replaced by others that reduce their freedom to do whatever the hell they want to do in the game.

Just because things are done such and such a way in small 10v10 games doesn't mean they scale in any manageable or desirable way up to 600+ a side three way clusterf*cks.

To follow your thinking to its conclusion 'Why are the devs even 'engaging' with the PS1 community?'

Because these 'bittervet bastards' are the only relevent experience source they can take/sound ideas off and get a close 'feel' on how to progress.

How bout YOU wait for the beta and then submit your ideas/suggestions then, instead of shouting down those who played PS and have concerns as to how the 'modern' mechanics will actually work in an MMO setting compared to what was in PS1.

Shade Millith · 2012-05-30, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

Seriously, the volume of bullshit being produced about "dumbing down" PS2 over the updated mechanics is so large we are going to need boats just to keep from drowning in recycled tacos. I mean really, it's starting to look like "Hanky the christmas poo" meets "Groundhog Day." The same shit over, and over, and over.

At least play the beta before you whine "somebody stole my cheese." You might find that the updated mechanics from a modern shooter combined with a large scale and persistent world is totally kick ass and not "dumbed down."

I get the feeling that some Planetside vets subconsciously blame COD/BF3 for "stealing" players away from PS1 and this internal blame has manifested into the "Anything COD/BF3 is evil" attitude. Please, please get over this. It's unhealthy.

I see many modern shooters as having dumbed down their game.

Battlefield for example.

BF1942, you had to work to keep your team mates alive, and work to keep yourself alive. You die, you're back to a cap point.
BF3, you can get yourself killed as much as you like, so long as an assault (The best class to use against infantry, the most common enemy in the game) is near by, you'll be resurrected from the dead without penalty, and with a minimum of fuss.

BF1942, ammo was something you took care to not run out of. Supply was from specific areas of the map, or from very specific vehicles. Reloading was done only when you needed to, as the game worked with clips/magazines remaining.
BF3, ammo is infinite to anyone near a Support class. Reloading was done every single time you had less than a full clip, and a spare second.

These are two things that are designed to making the game easier and simpler. Loss of death penalty, and ammo conservation. Instead of death being something to avoid, it's just a shrug of the shoulders and a shockpaddles.

Toppopia · 2012-05-30, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

Seriously, the volume of bullshit being produced about "dumbing down" PS2 over the updated mechanics is so large we are going to need boats just to keep from drowning in recycled tacos. I mean really, it's starting to look like "Hanky the christmas poo" meets "Groundhog Day." The same shit over, and over, and over.

At least play the beta before you whine "somebody stole my cheese." You might find that the updated mechanics from a modern shooter combined with a large scale and persistent world is totally kick ass and not "dumbed down."

I get the feeling that some Planetside vets subconsciously blame COD/BF3 for "stealing" players away from PS1 and this internal blame has manifested into the "Anything COD/BF3 is evil" attitude. Please, please get over this. It's unhealthy.

Isn't normally customary to have a poll with this thread? To see what people think.

And i agree, we need to wait till closed beta before commenting on the big issues of *insert issues here*.

Gandhi · 2012-05-30, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

I get the feeling that some Planetside vets subconsciously blame COD/BF3 for "stealing" players away from PS1 and this internal blame has manifested into the "Anything COD/BF3 is evil" attitude.

And I get the feeling you're desperately trying to come up with some excuse for why people don't agree with you.

I get the feeling you subconsciously want Planetside 2 to be CoD with bigger maps. See how easy that was?

Bags · 2012-05-30, 03:43 AM

While I don't agree with people not being allowed to speculate, I will agree I am very annoyed of the phrase "dumbed down" being thrown around as an argument with no substance.

SKYeXile · 2012-05-30, 03:44 AM

^Yea somebody gotta question the design choices, may aswell be us now while theylre still designing. I dont believe planetside is going to be or play exactly like BF or COD, but alot of the stuff is very similar or almost identical...eg squad spawning and dropping ammo box's along with the need to have a cockpit view and classes.

But there's hopefully some goo things that separate it from games like that like the light assault jump jets, rexo shield, heavy weapons, MAX's(if them and good can even go in the same sentence) and hopefully the expand on the engineer and make it something more unique, like constructing forward bases(like what happened in ps1 when you combined a AMS, loadstar, alot of CE and some stealth bubbles)

SKYeXile · 2012-05-30, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

Isn't normally customary to have a poll with this thread? To see what people think.

And i agree, we need to wait till closed beta before commenting on the big issues of *insert issues here*.

Needs a standard PSU like poll:

You agree that taking modern elements doesn't make it dumber
You believe Planetside 2 is dumbed down enough.
You feel dumb for voting in the poll.

Coreldan · 2012-05-30, 03:49 AM

4) You feel dumb for writing "pole" instead of "poll"

Just kidding, I LOVE YOU MAN!

SKYeXile · 2012-05-30, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Coreldan

4) You feel dumb for writing "pole" instead of "poll"

Just kidding, I LOVE YOU MAN!

LOL i questioned myself for a sec, im like...wait no...thats not the right poll....then im thinking maybe i should spell it like that for the last option.

Graywolves · 2012-05-30, 03:59 AM

Why are you supporting dumbing down PS2?

Trolling aside I usually just ignore posts that I find to be of ill-taste or provide little to a discussion.

Mezorin · 2012-05-30, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Needs a standard PSU like poll:

You agree that taking modern elements doesn't make it dumber
You believe Planetside 2 is dumbed down enough.
You feel dumb for voting in the poll.

You forgot "Wait until beta to see" in there

I figure so long as Higby takes a "What works best for PlanetSide 2 and making this the best game ever" approach, I'm cool with what ever shakes out. No golden cows, we just want the best most enjoyable game that is Planetside 2 and let's us all have a blast, and is successful for SOE.

Also OP, please note that RU vs US 64 man < VS vs NC vs TR 2000 man in terms of controlled chaos and map scale. Caspian Border would be the no man's land between two bases on Cyssor, just two. Let alone the other bases and such all over the map, and the other continents. This also effects vehicle balance, because unlike BF3 where you have restricted numbers of vehicles, in PS2 you can pull what ever you can afford. BF3 suppression would also be bullshit in a can, as one guy with an MCG could wave the gun around in the air and mess up the aim for literally dozens, and Squad Spawning would turn PS2 into a zombie zerg invasion game because you could never FINISH OFF a ten man squad. And let's not even get started how DICE basically neutered the command and squad systems recently and turned BF3 into "Zerg: The Game" , and other things they took out to make the game work on console.

This does not mean that COD or Battlefield are horrible series unto themselves (I loved BF2142, Bad Company 2, COD4, Black Ops, and somewhat like BF3 like many here), it just means they are working in different scaled context. Hell, with a bit of balance tuning and adjustment Battlefield 2142 was basically what Planetside 1 should have been gun/vehicle mechanics wise. Yes, they even got the mechs right in that game

. Just understand that COD/BF3 balance logic does not always work well when its 320 vs 320 and not 32 vs 32. We don't have a hate-on for the other titles for what they are, but there is already Battlefield and there is already Call of Duty. We want Planetside 2, and we want it to be great.

The Kush · 2012-05-30, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

Seriously, the volume of bullshit being produced about "dumbing down" PS2 over the updated mechanics is so large we are going to need boats just to keep from drowning in recycled tacos. I mean really, it's starting to look like "Hanky the christmas poo" meets "Groundhog Day." The same shit over, and over, and over.

At least play the beta before you whine "somebody stole my cheese." You might find that the updated mechanics from a modern shooter combined with a large scale and persistent world is totally kick ass and not "dumbed down."

I get the feeling that some Planetside vets subconsciously blame COD/BF3 for "stealing" players away from PS1 and this internal blame has manifested into the "Anything COD/BF3 is evil" attitude. Please, please get over this. It's unhealthy.

FAIL

Talented Maori · 2012-05-30, 04:16 AM

I agree to the Devs using elements from old FPS games, just not COD or BF3, or any of the other crap games that have come and gone. They should look at how MAG on the PS3 did it, BF3 was puss and felt like a powered up version of the COD franchise, MW3 was 'the same'. MAG actually had good gameplay and was on numerous occasions refered to by people I met playing it as being like PS1 foot battles. This game, PS2, is the only game that has drawn me away from MAG and I hope they don't wreck it by making it COD on steroids. If you had a pile of turd would it be a good thing to make it bigger?