Gameplay: Let's talk Infiltrator - The Commando role

[Antivide]

Now there is an Infiltrator thread that is 3 months old, but I'm not going to Necro that for the sake of everyone's sanity. Why no Necro? Because I know all of you are going to complain at me about it. Also because we've seen the game in action, it's time to start a fresh discussion about it.

So what are we talking about?

In case you haven't read the title yet, these fine sexy gentlemen:



From what we know about the Infiltrator it seems it's just your standard "Guy that turns invisible wot shoots stuff at long range"
I.e, the bush Wookie in Battlefield Bad Company 2/ Battlefield 3. The Sniper on TF2's 2Fort.

To echo the thoughts of Malorn from the thread I did not necro:

Other than long range effectiveness, why would a squad of heavy infantry want an infiltrator? I don't think a cloaking suit is a strong enough reason to take one. Auto-spotting hostiles for the squad might justify close-recon support, as would an EMP grenade.

Indeed, what use is the Infiltrator in a tight fitted Outfit? Or even just a random Zerging pubbie Squad?

Medics can heal and revive, always useful. Light Assaults have jump packs for flanking. Heavy Assaults get LMGs and anti-vehicle/anti-air weapons. Engineers can repair MAXes and vehicles, put down mines, set up turrets for chokepoints.

Again: Malorn

We'll have a few, but the question is how many. Don't need a lot of people to scout around nearby. 1 per 30? 1 per 10? Right now it seems most likely we'll only need 1-2 per 30 for overwatch. Any more than that is a wasted MAX, Medic, or Rexo.

Seems like the real "value" of the infiltrator is to make the people who like stealth gameplay or sniping happy. Generally its not a role that is overly beneficial to teamwork.

So here's the conundrum, how do we make the Infiltrator more useful in teamwork?

I think Bad Company 2 has the answer.


While Recons in BC2 could just sit back and snipe people (aKa Bush Wookies) they could also be extremely useful on a team due to their tossable motion sensing balls (hur hur) and C4. Recons were the only class in BC2 other than a non-Assault Rifle using Assault (Assaults had to use PDWs or Shotguns to have access to C4) who could use C4.

For example:

Just watch the first 3 minutes to get the gist of it.

In the BC2 video we can see our lovely Wookie blasting people at close range with a shotgun. Now I think shotguns are too much for a class that can turn invisible so don't get too worried. What I suggest is giving the Infiltrator access to SMGs. High DPS, low range, close quarters weapons (SMGs, machine pistols, etc.).

This is what I would call an "Commando" Infiltrator.

High duration, low quality cloaking
SMG + Red dot, silencer, foregrip
Pistol
C4 Explosives
Sensor Grenades

This set up would allow the Infiltrator to perform a flanking role in highly organized squads. Similar to how the Light Assault can flank with jump packs but with more subtlety.

Now that we've got the loadout for our ""Commando". I'll go over three primary changes that should be implemented. Basically my three "points" for making the Infiltrator more team-work oriented.

1. C4 Explosives
2. Sensor Grenades
3. Access to SMGs

To prevent C4 from being spammable, C4 should cost resources. This prevents an Infiltrator from endlessly spamming C4 at infantry. Also there should be a hard cap on how much C4 you can hold (barring any Specializations that increase that amount). Hopefully this will make C4 a valuable piece of equipment rather than an easy way to spam kills.

Sensor grenades are no doubt going to be a highly polarizing idea. To keep it from being overpowered, it should work on a "pulse" system similar to a radar. Basically every few seconds the grenade would "pulse" emitting a radius of effect. Any enemies within that pulse radius would be spotted temporarily for everyone in your squad or everyone on your side (this is a balancing issue).

Basically think "radar" only for infantry. No 3D spotting, no real-time tracking. The pulse would only reveal enemies in their position at the time of the "pulse"
The radius of the pulse and frequency as well as resource cost are all factors that can be adjusted as balance warrants.
The sensor grenade cannot be destroyed but gives off an audible sound so any infantry in the grenade's area will know if they're spotted or not.

SMG access is simple enough. I don't see it as a balancing issue. Why not give the Infiltrator more variety? I don't see a problem.


TLDR:

Infiltrator has cloaking. To make the Infiltrator in Planetside 2 a more useful/team based class needs to be able to use SMGs, C4, and sensor grenades ala BC2. Sensor grenades are an optional requirement free for discussion. Infiltrators could do just fine in the sabotage role with C4, SMG, and cloak.

If there are any PS1 vets that would like to chime in go ahead. I have not played the first game and I will naturally defer to someone who has more experience than me.

I would like to post this in "General Discussions" but this section is here. I think General Discussions has a wee bit too attention.

Edit: It seems Infiltrator will have access to C4. So that point is moot. The other two still stand.

[Zekeen]

Well, I can't say your thread is all that needed. The stuff you talked about, from what I understand from all my information diving, is already in or planned. Infiltrators work as recon, demolition, assassination, and sniper roles. There will be detection devices they can set up in bases for the assault team, C-4 or similar explosives, back stabbing murder, and sniper rifle as said.

But I gotta say was a nice post, and you included pictures, which always gets you more views, responses, and gets them to read more.

In any case, the infiltrator will have a variety of roles, tools, skills, and weapons to be incredibly variable on the battlefield.

[Antivide]

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Well, I can't say your thread is all that needed. The stuff you talked about, from what I understand from all my information diving, is already in or planned. Infiltrators work as recon, demolition, assassination, and sniper roles. There will be detection devices they can set up in bases for the assault team, C-4 or similar explosives, back stabbing murder, and sniper rifle as said.

But I gotta say was a nice post, and you included pictures, which always gets you more views, responses, and gets them to read more.

In any case, the infiltrator will have a variety of roles, tools, skills, and weapons to be incredibly variable on the battlefield.

I wasn't sure about the C4 thing. I didn't know if EVERY class had it or if it was just Light Assault.

In any case I don't think the "sensor grenades" or the SMG idea has been thrown thrown around so I think my thread has some merit. I kind of want to play the sneaky Operator Infiltrator with an SMG rather than a sniper.

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Antivide

I wasn't sure about the C4 thing. I didn't know if EVERY class had it or if it was just Light Assault.

In any case I don't think the "sensor grenades" or the SMG idea has been thrown thrown around so I think my thread has some merit. I kind of want to play the sneaky Operator Infiltrator with an SMG rather than a sniper.

They haven't been thrown around, but I bet similar things will be in. Even if the infiltrator doesn't get an SMG, the machine pistols in the game are BRUTAL. I watched a TR go through a MASSIVE kill streak with a machine pistol in the live stream. But SMGs are probably going to be available to infiltrator in same way, that's my guess anyways. Sensors of some kind will be in to toss around to reveal the enemy, dunno about grenades, but they probably won't be a point blank tossing device.

And you can even plant C-4 directly onto a MAX, or will be able to anyways. That's the fun of the infiltrator they have planned.

[Antivide]

That's a TR pistol though, what about for the other Empires? I'd rather the Infiltrator have a dedicated SMG slot than having to put CQB duties to the pistol.