How to Stop 4th Empire/Spying/Sabotage?

Marsgrim · 2012-06-18, 08:39 AM

I'm sure a number of people have thought of this, but it seems to me that there is a potential problem generated by the current F2P model.

Firstly, with a F2P model it is very easy for people to create multiple accounts allowing them to desert a faction when it is winning or losing.

Secondly, it can allow sabotage of an empire's actions by spying on primay targets and any form of command chat or priority mission.

Thirdly, it can allow sabotage of an empire's actions at a facility through deliberate greifing - e.g. a galaxy bomb or worse, deliberate misuse of empire resources through spuriously spawning vehicles and parking them in the middle of nowhere or using them to TK.

Does anyone know if the developers have given throught to preventative measures on this - beyond in game CSR which may not police the issue quickly enough if too busy with other calls.

The only preventative meausr eI can think of is through a punkbuster or anti-cheat which registers the computer id to prevent faction switching but that would not account for multiple computers or be fair to those sharing a PC but on different factions.

Anyone got any ideas?

Sledgecrushr · 2012-06-18, 08:43 AM

Always observe OPSEC

MacXXcaM · 2012-06-18, 08:44 AM

I wouldn't think this to be a problem. On a global level there are hardly sensitive information given out within the empire.

True tactics will be used by outfits/squads only, I think.

Afterall most of us are playing the game to have fun, not to win... So I wouldn't care too much about traitors in our midst.

FuzzyandBlue · 2012-06-18, 08:50 AM

Also vehicles are spawned from a private resource pool not a faction wide one. So said "spys" would need to spend time with their character to troll themselves. As far as the faction hoppers go with an acct for each, well they'll be terrible players most likely and help ensure the constant ebb and flow of the war.

For example, TR is winning, trashing the NC and VS, all the good TR players log off and are replaced by the dead weight in the other two factions. NC and VS, with their now superior players, regain lost ground and then some. I don't know how likely this is but I can see it happening.

Nasher · 2012-06-18, 08:52 AM

I'm betting they will use a system like in PS1. Where if you switch to a character on the same server in a different faction you have to wait about 8 hours to switch back :P

megamold · 2012-06-18, 08:53 AM

any mmo has spies. consider it part of the game, just another tactic that comes into play.

mum's the word, or was it opsec ?

Originally Posted by Nasher

I'm betting they will use a system like in PS1. Where if you switch to a character on the same server in a different faction you have to wait about 8 hours to switch back :P

even this will not deter a persitent spy.

edit : just something to think about:
in eve online people actually sub new accounts at 15€ a month just to spy on the enemy (or friendly) corporations.

Hmr85 · 2012-06-18, 09:02 AM

Unfortunately there is no way to stop somebody from spying if they really wanted to. Empire chat was never the most secure thing. With that said though, it won't be hard to figure out where the zerg is. Most spy's will spend their time trying to get into the top outfits for that faction. That comes back to opsec and paying attention to who you let in.

Nasher · 2012-06-18, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by megamold

any mmo has spies. consider it part of the game, just another tactic that comes into play.

mum's the word, or was it opsec ?

even this will not deter a persitent spy.

edit : just something to think about:
in eve online people actually sub new accounts at 15€ a month just to spy on the enemy (or friendly) corporations.

Yea but Eve is all about griefing people. That seems to be the only aim of the game.

In planetside theres not a lot you can see from the enemy's perspective that you can't see from your own and 1 guy can't make any noticable difference when you have about 2000 running around doing their own thing.

It's not even like you have to hunt for cloaked AMSs any more since galaxies are now the mobile spawns and they don't exactly blend in.

Rexdezi · 2012-06-18, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by MacXXcaM

Afterall most of us are playing the game to have fun, not to win... So I wouldn't care too much about traitors in our midst.

What if winning is fun to someone?

megamold · 2012-06-18, 09:11 AM

i don't consider the presence of spies as unfortunate, i think it adds more of a "trust" mechanic to the game.
imho it adds an extra dimension to the tactical gameplay.

also consider that being a spy is not easy, it requires work and patience to infiltrate a large outfit, gain trust and get in to the "inner circle" when it comes to opsec.
information like where the zerg is heading is not usefull.

edit: if you think eve is only about griefing other people you dont understand what the game is about.
also, what consitutes as griefing? if subterfuge and treachery are built into the game, is it griefing? i dont think so.
people blurb on about "realism" here all the time, geuss what : spies are real, and spies in games to. especially if what they do is 100% emergent gameplay.

ChipMHazard · 2012-06-18, 09:11 AM

I actually consider proper spying as being a fun addition to any mmo with competing factions.
I absolutely love some of the stories of treachery and deceit I've heard from EVE players.

Canaris · 2012-06-18, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Always observe OPSEC

I'd love to see these style faction posters up around bases, outposts and towers when you take them over add a sense of paranoia, like a proper war and just as cheesy I hope

It's little touchs like these that can make great additions to the game.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-18, 09:16 AM

Spies can only do damage if they can see things the enemy can't. Spying will happen, you can't stop it. But you can limit the damage it can do. Spies could follow the main zerg and fly around scoping out potentially vulnerable territories, but if that is information they could get as a hostile player with roughly the same amount of work then having a spy isn't really worth it.

1) Limit showing friendly positions on the map, especially anything that could show how troops are distributed across territories. Spies will use this information to figure out where to attack or send their outfit. So if I open up the minimap I shouldnt' be able to see the locations of every friendly on the continent. I should be able to see nearby friendlies on my minimap though. That makes it a lot more work to spy areas.

2) Don't give a way to show where a particular person is. No /who or crap like that. No outfit scanning. Might be able to identify if a particular person is online, but don't show their continent or location.

If it doesn't really pay off and is a lot of work to get the intel then the number of people doing it will be very low. In games like EVE online spying had a potentially astronomical payoff. In Planetside it wasn't really that big of a deal, but PS also had limited showing of friendlies to CUD abilities that were on a cooldown. So you could find where your empire was but the information was quickly stale. And they also gave reveal enemies to you also so you didn't really need to do that.

If they continue with that, even if people show up on the minimap I'm not terribly concerned. I think the /who stuff did more damage, and being able to find out where specific people were - they shouldn't do that. As others said, opsec. Don't tell people where you're going or what you're doing that you can't trust. If that's the case the only thing a spy could do is follow you. PS2 has friendly fire, which means if someone is following you and you don't like it, tell 'em to piss off and if they don't just kill them. You may also be able to identify spies by stats - few kills/captures, but a lot of playtime, especially as infiltrator or pilot. Might learn to recognize a few of them and if they trail your outfit, kill 'em.

Canaris · 2012-06-18, 09:20 AM

here's a great NC one

megamold · 2012-06-18, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

2) Don't give a way to show where a particular person is. No /who or crap like that. No outfit scanning. Might be able to identify if a particular person is online, but don't show their continent or location.
Spying will happen, you can't stop it. But you can limit the damage it can do. Spies could follow the main zerg and fly around scoping out potentially vulnerable territories, but if that is information they could get as a hostile player with roughly the same amount of work then having a spy isn't really worth it.

that would be the work of a scout

a spies job isnt really to find out where the enemy is right now, or in 5 minutes time.
his job is to find out where the enemy will try to be in an hour or 2.
or where that specials ops team is being sent before it gets sent out, and why they want them there.

infiltration, social engineering, abuse of trust
being a spy is awesome, to bad im not cut out to be one