Squad Leader mechanics - Major Concern!

Ukrai · 2012-07-04, 12:56 AM

Hi there, im not usually a forum poster, more of a reader but i couldnt stay silent on this one and i couldnt see anyone with the same concerns as me from a forum search so thought i would raise this in hope that other people feel the same way and have their voices heard.

My concern, and it is a big one, is the way that Squad Leaders will go up in ranks in PS2 and how i beleive the new system will cause major problems a couple of months post go-live.

First let me fill in the history for those of you that didnt get a chance to play PS1. Squad leaders, originally, were giving a seperate experience pool to level their 'Command Rank', there were 5 ranks which took a LOT of effort to obtain as you need to lead a squad into combat and win. The more people you had in your squad and the bigger the battle and the more your squad stuck together, the more 'Command XP' you were given as a Squad Leader. As you progressed up this command ladder you were given more power to help your faction. You would eventually be able to do air strikes and give orders to the entire continent. This worked well in PS1 because only the most dedicated and serious leaders got into a position of power.

Now lets compare this to PS2, We will still have Squad Leader ranks, but, they are certifications, which means anyone can pick them up in-game no matter what they do. Let me give you an example; 14 year old Tom finds out he can get the most certification points by solo bombing facilities in his Liberator, so he does that over and over again for a week, racks up a ton of kills and certification points, suddenly the Liberator bombing exploit is nerfed so Tom gets angry and wants to take some immature revenge on the devs, he then discovers he can give orders to battalions of players if he puts his cert points into Squad Leader, so he proceeds to do so and instantly becomes a high ranking officer for the entire faction. His first step in his new role? /broadcast "sup biatches im da leetest troll" and then proceeds to give orders to squads to attack useless or over-defended facilities and gets everyone killed.

This is a major concern to me, anyone with high ranking positions in the faction should, nay, NEED, to earn that privlidge, otherwise we're all in a lot of trouble!

Does anyone else agree we have a problem here?

Ratstomper · 2012-07-04, 12:58 AM

I do agree. I mentioned this is another thread somewhere...

Anyway, even PS1's command system wasn't bulletproof. Plenty of people got CR5 and orbital strikes that should never have had either. I agree something needs to change for PS2, but I'm not sure PS1's system is enough.

SKYeXile · 2012-07-04, 01:04 AM

levels of it could be tied to battle ranks.

Xaine · 2012-07-04, 01:05 AM

People can choose which commanders to follow, and select missions.

If a mission is to attack something retarded, people won't do it.

You'll get rated as a Commander by how often your missions are completed, i believe.

So Tom won't do very well.

Soyokaze · 2012-07-04, 01:06 AM

I think the saving grace here will be in how the individual certs work. The only one I've heard is 100% guaranteed is one that increases the XP earned by squad-mates near you. This is an entirely selfless cert that only serves to attract people to your squads. If they're all so team oriented, there'll be a very obvious trade off. If you're spending certs in command, you're choosing to be less powerful yourself. I don't think this will be popular.

That being said, I WOULD like some way for the community to choose/recognize its leaders. Perhaps something as simple as giving the leaders of the top 10 Outfits global speak?

Maticus · 2012-07-04, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

I do agree. I mentioned this is another thread somewhere...

Anyway, even PS1's command system wasn't bulletproof. Plenty of people got CR5 and orbital strikes that should never have had either. I agree something needs to change for PS2, but I'm not sure PS1's system is enough.

CR5 was great for the first like...3 years of the game. Then the population started to die down and everyone had an OS. It is pretty silly now days.

Cordless · 2012-07-04, 01:13 AM

I can definitely see your concern but this is the Internet. If you put hundreds of people in a room together and give them some form of anonymous input someone will act like a twat 100% of the time.
I think the big question will be what exactly the benefits of command certs are and whether they are more of a strategic (what could they be?) or a tactical nature?
Tactical is easy, basically anything you would want to know in a skirmish would be fair game for a cert or ability. Strategic I don't know - maybe knowing more about current situation continent wide, maybe knowing more about the other side specifically, maybe being able to assign missions for your faction for bonus XP a la player made quests?

ESPECIALLY with the game being Free to play I can't imagine being able to issue orders being a benefit since other players are more likely to either outright ignore it or, like you're concerned about, be a douche.

thegreekboy · 2012-07-04, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Xaine

People can choose which commanders to follow, and select missions.

If a mission is to attack something retarded, people won't do it.

You'll get rated as a Commander by how often your missions are completed, i believe.

So Tom won't do very well.

One of the above posters threw out a legitimate concern. What happens when, 10 years into the game, everyone can be a commander?

Ratstomper · 2012-07-04, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Xaine

People can choose which commanders to follow, and select missions.

If a mission is to attack something retarded, people won't do it.

You'll get rated as a Commander by how often your missions are completed, i believe.

So Tom won't do very well.

I'll tell you from experience that a lot of people will do whatever pops in global chat in PS1. A lot of people don't have the tactical mind to differentiate between a good tactical decision and a retarded one: commanders included.

Command and it's abilities would almost have to be regulated somehow. I'm not sure how it would be, though. Something that should reward good commanders and make sure the riff-raff either learns how to command effectively (if that's what they want to do) or doesn't have access to the responsibility in the first place. Back to PS1: command can make or break the success of the whole faction.

xnorb · 2012-07-04, 01:27 AM

That's the whole issue with levelup bonus and unlocks.
It's only a matter of time and skill isn't calculated in.

There needs to be a voting mechanism which lets us identify good leaders
and bad leaders. For the start it maybe would be good to give players with
more than 100 hours PS1 experience a mark as "experienced leader" and
all others need to work for that reputation.

Soyokaze · 2012-07-04, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by thegreekboy

One of the above posters threw out a legitimate concern. What happens when, 10 years into the game, everyone can be a commander?

They've said that, as of right now, it would take you ~3 years to get every cert in the game, but that they will constantly be adding new ones. See: EVE Online. It's a carrot on a stick, a constantly moving goal.

Ratstomper · 2012-07-04, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by xnorb

That's the whole issue with levelup bonus and unlocks.
It's only a matter of time and skill isn't calculated in.

There needs to be a voting mechanism which lets us identify good leaders
and bad leaders. For the start it maybe would be good to give players with
more than 100 hours PS1 experience a mark as "experienced leader" and
all others need to work for that reputation.

Even that may not accomplish much. If a bunch of people will follow someone into a stupid tactical decision, they'll probably vote for the guy as well. Command should almost have to be something that's consistently upkept.

For instance, use a similar command ranking to PS1: Give players command points (awarded with command XP, much like regular certs) for successfully leading other players to capturing objectives. Give all squad leaders (CR0) some basic tools (Waypoints for god's sake!!) and give additional tools/abilities as they cert for it with their command points. The more points spent in a command cert tree give cooler things (eventually OSes and the like).

Additionally, make it so command rank degrades over time. You can keep your certs, but you can only use tools for the rank you currently have or below. that way we don't have 90% of the game's population with command chat and abilities 10 years down the road. That way if someone is a dedicated and effective commander, they will retain that status as well as the responsibility as the right person for the job.

mintyc · 2012-07-04, 01:41 AM

i am worryed about this to.

one way they could deal with this is to have CEP(or whatever they want to call it) that only squadleaders get, be an actual resource that is spent on useing command abilitys. so every tom dick and harry may have all the command certs but only those who lead sucsessfull squads can use the more powerfull abilitys as they are the only ones that have significant ammount of the correct resource.

this actualy has the advantage of 1. makeing the position of squadleader valuable rather than just the chore of being the guy in position 1 (invites, waypoints etc...) and 2. encorageing those who make better use of the tools available in the command tree are the ones who actualy lead squads and get the command resource rather than just some guy who wants to get his command rank up.

Cordless · 2012-07-04, 02:02 AM

The two problems I see with all these suggestions are how you would explain to a computer who is leading a squad (what does that even mean?) and then whether or not they are doing a good job (what does THAT mean?).
The whole command points as a resource thing sounds neat though but you still run into the same question. Remember to the server we're all numbers with numbers as attributes.

Sledgecrushr · 2012-07-04, 02:09 AM

If we manage to play this game for ten years then I think you deserve all the command certs and bennies ps2 has to offer. And still it wont necessarily make you a great leader. This sort of thing "leadership" isnt a skill you buy in a store. The good leaders will gain the respect of his soldiers and his soldiers will make sure that great leader is out front leading. I guess it boils down to a great leader doesnt really need a cert to do what he does. And a cert doesnt make a good leader.