New PC, strictly gaming

Cavos · 2012-07-11, 07:20 PM

Hey everyone. With PS2 coming out soon, I've decided it's time I had a new gaming rig. I've done a fair amount of reading reviews, comparing products, and reading over the threads already here.. but I had a few questions specifically to my build that I am planning on.

1. What is your budget and does that include shipping/taxes?

$1,000- $1,500

2. Where do you live (Please list if possible town, state, and country)?

Grand Rapids, Michigan. Newegg is next day delivery for their standard 3 day shipping..

3. What do you need this computer to do (like gaming, Photoshop, and so on)?

Strictly gaming. As a result, I only want an SSD. Thinking 128gb may be sufficient. Have a laptop for all my media / work use.

4. What parts will you need for the computer? Please list what parts specifically.

Everything hardware related. Mouse / Keyboard / Monitor / Headset I either have, or will be upgrading my current at a later point in time.

5. Are you reusing any parts for this computer? If so please say what parts.

No hardware being reused.

6. What kind of monitor/resolution do you have or want to get to use for the computer?

Have a HDMI input tv.

7. Do you have a legit OS? If so what OS and is it 32-bit or 64-bit?

I will be getting one / 64bit

8. What are you looking for the motherboard to have feature wise? Like SLI, Crossfire, Firewire, USB 3.0, Sata 6.0 Gb/s, and so on.

Not necessarily. SLI would be a nice thing to be prepared for. I plan on this build lasting at least 5+ years at high performance. So down the line when 670s drop to not being over $400, picking up a second would be pretty nice.

9. Any plans to overclock the CPU or GPU?

I have no idea how to over clock, but I am a huge fan of getting every ounce of performance out of something I put time and money into. So yes, after reading a few of the suggestions in this forum, I would like to be able to over clock my machine, if only to keep it more aggressive in terms of the 'next gen' of game requirements. This is really an investment to me, and I don't want to have to make a repeat purchase of 1,000 in the next few years.

10. What time kind of time frame are you planning on ordering these parts?

As many of these threads of late, in time for PS2. I've been tossing around a timeframe, and I've pretty much decided that as Beta is announced, I'll pull the trigger. This week or in 6 months, I'm good at waiting. I just want to have the best machine possible for my price range. I'm hoping I can do high / max and expect 60+ fps. But I do not know how realistic of an expectation that is.

---

Case:Corsair Obsidian 650D

CPU Cooler: looking at the Corsair h100 liquid cooling system. I assume this is the best route to go for efficient, quiet, over clocked safe temperatures? Or would the h60 be more than enough?

Mobo: I am torn between the ASRock Z77 and the ASUS Sabertooth Z77

If someone could explain.. Why the ASUS is almost $100 more expensive, and if it truly is worth the extra money. I've been comparing the mobos for awhile now, and I can't find a significant difference.

Also, both the mobos above run 16x/0x or 8x/8x. If I was serious on getting an SLI ready machine, would I be looking at a different tier of mobos that support 16x/16x or is that just overkill beyond? (or a thing possible within my budget)

CPU: i5 3570K IB Seems to be the top tier of the i5 generation. i7 just seems to get a lot more expensive for minimal increases. Also over clocking the 3570k looks like it would last me for quite a long time with proper thermal care.

GPU: EVGA GTX 670 FTW one for now, maybe a second in 4 years or so, or whenever it drops to a significantly better price. This is only a 2gb card, is that an issue, or is that more than required?

RAM: 8gb 2x4gb ddr3 1866 pc3 14900

SSD: 128gb Samsung 830 As I mentioned this is intended to only have the OS, games, and the essential stuff required for said games. As a result, I am pretty set on only needing a SSD of small capacity. Either 128, or the next step up. But really, I get too game ADD if I allow myself to install everything at once.. :roll eyes:

PSU: Either Corsair HX750 or m12II 620

Just not sure which is the best value, or necessary to run the above hardware. Because I want this machine to last for a long time, I feel PSU and CPU cooling are the areas to not cheap in. I've had a few overheating issues in the past, and want to eliminate anything from running itself into flames, or shorting out and destroying the gpu.

Long post, But I've been putting a lot of thought into making this a good investment. Almost to the point of purchasing (we all hope), and just want to make sure everything looks good and optimized.

Any minor or major changes are more than welcome, I'd really love any advice people have. Thanks!

Bags · 2012-07-11, 07:32 PM

GPU - gigabyte 670
CPU - 3570k
RAM = 8gb DDR3 gskill
Case - Corsiar Graphite 600T (though case is personal preference...
Mobo - Asrock Z77
PSU - Corsair 750w modular
SSD - Crucial 256gb
CD/DVD Burner
CPU Cooler - Corsair H100 (IDK about this)

Grand Total: $1,479.56

This should do the game on high/max.

There's almost no difference if any between 16x and 8x. Current GPU cannot use up 8x's bandwidth from my understanding.

You won't see a gaming increase right now by buying a more expensive CPU.

The FTW edition has slightly faster clocks than the gigabyte, but has reference cooling with is louder and less efficient.

You don't need ram that fast, it won't make your game run better.

Cavos · 2012-07-11, 08:51 PM

Thanks, all very good points.

As for case, I checked newegg's weekly promos and found the Corsair Obsidian 650D with -20 off and $20 MIR. Bit pricey for my range, but it's discounted enough to justify.

Also completely forgot about a dvd drive.

As for ram, what is the primary difference in ram speeds then? At some point in time I imagine that there would be a noticeable result.

Bags · 2012-07-11, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cavos

Thanks, all very good points.

As for case, I checked newegg's weekly promos and found the Corsair Obsidian 650D with -20 off and $20 MIR. Bit pricey for my range, but it's discounted enough to justify.

Also completely forgot about a dvd drive.

As for ram, what is the primary difference in ram speeds then? At some point in time I imagine that there would be a noticeable result.

I've never seen real world differences with ram speeds. I think it's mostly for benchmarking/epeenery. You'd have to ask someone more knowledgable to get a 100% sure answer, but I've never seen faster than 1600 GHZ of DDR3 recommended for gaming.

If you get that case, be sure to use this promo: $15 off w/ promo code EMCNCJN27, ends 7/16. After MIR it's $145.

Also, another point against the FTW GPU... the 670 OC themselves while running. My MSI GTX 670 reference has gotten up to ~1200mhz core clock in BF3 with the fan on 70% (which is very since it's reference, but headphones block out 90% of it). So a factory super OC version is even more of a rip off.

Goku · 2012-07-11, 09:23 PM

Cavos I'm sorry, but you will not be have a high performance experience with this machine for 5 years even with a 670 in SLI years down the road. The new consoles will be released within the next year and will likely bump the requirements of PC gamers due to no longer being held back by the 7 year old hardware.

Now going with that. I recommend scrapping the H100, 750W PSU, and perhaps even the SSD and saving your funds for later down the road. That money will serve you better in a couple years verse splurging on that stuff right now.

H100 is total overkill for what you need, a $30 cooler master hyper 212+ will suffice.

Doing SLI I can really only suggest at the time of the purchase or at most a year down the road, 3-4 years is way too long. With that you do not need a 750W PSU, this will do 620W is all you need. That 670 will last you probably two years in which you can get another card, which I wouldn't be shocked to be 3 times more powerful anyway at least. That will give the system longevity, not SLI.

SSD prices are falling like a rock, so you maybe better off holding out for a year to get a 512GB for sub $250 or even a 256GB for $100 to save money now.

What resolution are you currently playing at with that TV of yours?

Here is a chart on gaming with higher speed DDR3. There really is no difference.

Rbstr · 2012-07-11, 09:28 PM

You get a couple frames, maybe. Ram speed just isn't much of an issue, overclocking ram brings instability potential and little else if you're not a benchmark humper. If you're going with Ivy Bridge get 1600.
I think I'd go with this set, because it's lower voltage, lower latency and have plain heat spreaders http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233199. (not that ram heat is much of an issue these days or latency makes much difference)

On the build in general:
The Sabertooth isn't worth it. Nor is any other gamer-branded part out there IMO. With a motherboard you're mostly looking to get the chipset you want and the ports and slots you need from a reputable company. A cheaper Asus would be a fine option too, as long as it's got the ports you want.
Honestly, I wouldn't even worry about SLi compatibility. You'll be fine for a year or more at great graphics settings with a single 670. After that, it's very possible you're better off getting a current generation card.
The factory-overclocked 670 isn't worth the extra bucks because of the base chip's built-in clocking features. That Gigabyte has a quieter cooler and will likely OC past the EVGA part if you want it to.
I like the M4 SSD, Samsung shouldn't be bad either.

If you think you might not want the storage hassles, look into getting a cache drive (here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148564). It's lots of the SSD gain without any game swapping.

Cases are pretty much pure personal preference as long as it meets your criterion.
I like Lian-Li because they're well built, most are aluminum and they aren't flashy.
There's 20% off on them right now.

EDIT: Like Goku said, future proofing is a fool's errand. Get something that's good for the current times, save the extra money and spend it in the future. That's just the nature of computer stuff these days.
This is why I never recommend buying parts over what you're spending (which is roughly the best value/performance category if you like to run on decent graphics settings)
I tend to do it incrementally. I'll probably replace my CPU/motherboard next year with Haswell. Bump up my graphics the year after. Cases don't really change, HDs and power supplies and sound cards are good for multiple iterations.

NumbaOneStunna · 2012-07-11, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Goku

Cavos I'm sorry, but you will not be have a high performance experience with this machine for 5 years even with a 670 in SLI years down the road. The new consoles will be released within the next year and will likely bump the requirements of PC gamers due to no longer being held back by the 7 year old hardware.

Now going with that. I recommend scrapping the H100, 750W PSU, and perhaps even the SSD and saving your funds for later down the road. That money will serve you better in a couple years verse splurging on that stuff right now.

H100 is total overkill for what you need, a $30 cooler master hyper 212+ will suffice.

Doing SLI I can really only suggest at the time of the purchase or at most a year down the road, 3-4 years is way too long. With that you do not need a 750W PSU, this will do 620W is all you need. That 670 will last you probably two years in which you can get another card, which I wouldn't be shocked to be 3 times more powerful anyway at least. That will give the system longevity, not SLI.

SSD prices are falling like a rock, so you maybe better off holding out for a year to get a 512GB for sub $250 or even a 256GB for $100 to save money now.

What resolution are you currently playing at with that TV of yours?

Here is a chart on gaming with higher speed DDR3. There really is no difference.

I agree with everything Goku said, except I would get a small cheap SSD to install a couple of games on. (that benefit from an SSD) I would not purchase an SSD larger than 128GB, that's a waste of money.

You can get a 64GB SSD for for like $60 basically everyone now adays.

MMO games benefit hugely from being on an SSD because they load instances faster and load new "zones" faster. Every played an MMO and then as you were getting close to a new "zone" (city, highly populated area, etc) the game would suddenly stutter and jerk for a few moments? This is because the game is loading the data from the hard drive, which in terms of data transfer rates is the slowest thing (by far) in modern computers.

An SSD will eliminate this stuttering and jerking when loading new zones or at least greatly reduce it.

I was a skeptic of SSD's when first released until I bought my first one. Now I believe SSD's are the greatest PC improvement in the last 5 years.

Pancake · 2012-07-12, 12:11 AM

RAM speed pretty much caps at 1600. If you are overclocking, you might want 1600, especially since it is $5 more and comes with a heatsink.

Here is an excellent video on futureproofing.

Cavos · 2012-07-12, 04:36 AM

That is a great video and extremely helpful.

After reading all the comments, i've definitely decided on scaling myself down slightly. If this is a machine that isn't expected to be upgraded in huge paths save for a new GPU in 2-4 years, no point in spending more of a budget than necessary to run current (this year and next) of games.

Updated build, priced at $1,210. $1,380 if I factor in monitor. Looking at it, I don't really see any easy smooth downgrades to not lose any performance, but have significant money saved for the future. Any corrections to that assumption? I could do a cheaper ASRock Z77 Pro3 mobo for ~$40 cheaper, but is it worth $40 to downgrade it?

Case: Corsair Obsidian 650D
CPU: i5 3750k
CPU Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212
Mobo: ASRock z77 Extreme4
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 670
PSU: SeaSonic M12II 620W I opted for modular cabling
SSD: I like the building blocks idea. Crucial m4 64 GB will be perfect, great price, easy to buy another in the future. Cartridge gaming nostalgia? The 650D Does have a top slot for a SSD if i'm not mistaken.
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 8gb I like the coloring / design of them. And are 1600, so no excessive numbers.
DVD Drive: LG
Monitor: Asus 23" HDMI LED Backlight LCD

Goku, re tv: I checked since I hadn't actually looked into it. My tv is max 1080i, or 720p. So, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of looking for a monitor or some kind of quality screen that would allow 1080p. I can justify this in the price by already dropping build from near 1500 to 1200 in just a few posts.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Been meaning to start on exact pricing this build for a long time.

Vancha · 2012-07-12, 05:13 AM

If you drop to a Pro3, I'd go down to the Z75 one. I don't think you'd be losing anything important. It won't overclock quite as high as the Extreme4, but you should still be able to get a good bump out of it.

Goku · 2012-07-12, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Cavos

Updated build, priced at $1,210. $1,380 if I factor in monitor. Looking at it, I don't really see any easy smooth downgrades to not lose any performance, but have significant money saved for the future. Any corrections to that assumption? I could do a cheaper ASRock Z77 Pro3 mobo for ~$40 cheaper, but is it worth $40 to downgrade it?

PSU: SeaSonic M12II 620W I opted for modular cabling
Monitor: Asus 23" HDMI LED Backlight LCD

Goku, re tv: I checked since I hadn't actually looked into it. My tv is max 1080i, or 720p. So, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of looking for a monitor or some kind of quality screen that would allow 1080p. I can justify this in the price by already dropping build from near 1500 to 1200 in just a few posts.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Been meaning to start on exact pricing this build for a long time.

Concerning the mobo. If you no longer need SLI I recommend looking into this combo with the MSI Z77-G43 and 3570K. Its about $30 cheaper.

PSU. You can get the same exact unit, just branded under another maker. Its the PC Power and Cooling Silencer MK III 600W Modular. After the gift card (good as money at NE) that you get and the MIR it comes to $55. I'm always bouncing back and forth on ordering this. I don't know if I want a cheap good upgrade or go for something like a 750W. I've had the same unit for over 4 years now and I want a new primary.

Monitor is always a good investment. Nothing wrong with getting one if you want to put money towards. That will easily last you years. I would hate to get stuck playing at around 1280x720 personally.

Bags · 2012-07-12, 01:44 PM

I don't think you want to have a 44 gb SSD (After win7) as your only storage device on your PC... you can store like 2 games and misc programs.

Cavos · 2012-07-12, 02:26 PM

Good note on the PSU, the sea sonic actually is out of stock as of today so I needed a new one anyway. Going to do the combo mobo/cpu deal, as I'd rather keep a z77 over z75, even if it is slightly cheaper. Just having slightly better technology on the mobo makes it feel like a better investment.

Regarding the SSD, I still am going to stick with such a small SSD. As I mentioned, this is literally a gaming machine and nothing more, my laptop will hold everything I need aside from gaming, and my external hard drive already has my media. I don't ever intend to have more than steam + a few games, ps2, win7, and vent installed. Plus as has been mentioned, I'll just either buy more of the 64gb ssds which are a great price to add-on with, or by then a 256 will be cheap enough to really get a value purchase on.

Well this is looking really good, and is doing a great job at being exactly in budget even with the unexpected monitor. Think the build is mostly done, unless there are any noticeable things I should change, but I feel like it's looking awesome. Thanks everyone

Exactly on budget target, and performance.

Goku · 2012-07-12, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

I don't think you want to have a 44 gb SSD (After win7) as your only storage device on your PC... you can store like 2 games and misc programs.

Thats why I am saying don't bother with a SSD for now. They are nice yes, but they are still pretty small. I would just suggest holding off in order to get a bigger one down the line. I'm starting to think my 128GB is small now even.

vampyro · 2012-07-12, 03:12 PM

Size Always Matters!