Thoughts on the Vanu Scythe

Fatgun · 2012-08-04, 06:58 PM

The footage that I have seen and the info that is available to read about the Scythe leads me to believe that it will have tremendous advantages in air to air engagements. I have a lot of gaming experience being a pilot possibly going into thousands of hours and the one advantage that stands way above others is maneuverability.
For example in Battlefield 3 the US F18 Hornet will always win handily in a 1v1 dogfight versus a RU S35 Flanker when equally skilled pilots are involved. However the F18 only has about a 3-5% advantage in turning radius.
In PS2 the Scythe has a massive turn radius advantage. Possibly as high as 50% or even more. Couple that with the instantaneous acceleration when afterburners are used and it seems that the Scythe is simply on another level.

Maybe the developers intend Vanu to have dominant air, the NC have the dominant ground, and the TR have a balanced army.

Rancherman · 2012-08-04, 07:00 PM

Its also the weakest, armor speaking. The Mosquito has a forward speed advantage, while the NC equivalent has much more armor. I had heard that the Scythe was a bit OP in the alpha and is being nerfed soon though.

LegioX · 2012-08-04, 07:01 PM

well it is a UFO.

Rivenshield · 2012-08-04, 07:01 PM

Speed is life. The Terran Republic will rule the skies... if it stops foot zerging long enough.

Gugabalog · 2012-08-04, 07:02 PM

TR control vertical engagements while VS control turning fights. Not sure about the NC.

Piper · 2012-08-04, 07:03 PM

Isn't it intended to pay for its grace in the air by being some what ephemeral if any kind of weaponry gets near it?

I appreciate what you're saying, that in a 1v1 dogfight it might well do rather well all other things being equal (Beta will tell those involved about that I guess and any NDA breakers

). But sometimes one might well prefer to have a larger weapon choice or a lot more armor?

Noctis · 2012-08-04, 07:04 PM

NC will simply not move while dropping warheads on your troops.

Rancherman · 2012-08-04, 07:06 PM

I'm looking forward to playing the Mosquito and my current plan would be to attack on the approach and not engage in a tight-turn dogfight. If it takes more then one pass then boost past him and out-speed and turn around instead of trying to out-maneuver it. Gotta play to your strengths, if he's far in front of out, his maneuverability isn't worth much.

Noctis · 2012-08-04, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Rancherman

I'm looking forward to playing the Mosquito and my current plan would be to attack on the approach and not engage in a tight-turn dogfight. If it takes more then one pass then boost past him and out-speed and turn around instead of trying to out-maneuver it. Gotta play to your strengths, if he's far in front of out, his maneuverability isn't worth much.

If you don't overwhelm the Scythe in a single attack he'll simply turn and shoot you while you boost away, which might and might not burn your back. Gotta check AA systems first and guns mounted.
Our reaver would simply stand still at safe range and shot down any spinning UFO.

Fatgun · 2012-08-04, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rancherman

I'm looking forward to playing the Mosquito and my current plan would be to attack on the approach and not engage in a tight-turn dogfight. If it takes more then one pass then boost past him and out-speed and turn around instead of trying to out-maneuver it. Gotta play to your strengths, if he's far in front of out, his maneuverability isn't worth much.

That could be a viable strategy however risky. Going straight, even though you would have a speed advantage, is possibly the worst thing you can do vs a good pilot. Since when you are going straight you are a very easy target.

To counter your strategy in a scythe I would make very sharp evasive moves as you attack. If you try to pull off with afterburners I would get behind you and follow, losing ground. Afterburners run out very quickly and you probably would still be in firing range. That would leave you no other choice but to attempt to make evasive maneuvers where the scythe has such an advantage that you would probably not survive for another afterburner sprint.

thegreekboy · 2012-08-04, 07:25 PM

From my perspective, the Scythe will win in tight turning dogfights, the Mosquito has the biggest advantage in hit and run tactics, and the Reaver, being heavily armored, slow, and not very maneuverable, i best for air to ground attacks, while in this department the mosquito is balanced and the scythe is weak.

Blackwolf · 2012-08-04, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Fatgun

The footage that I have seen and the info that is available to read about the Scythe leads me to believe that it will have tremendous advantages in air to air engagements. I have a lot of gaming experience being a pilot possibly going into thousands of hours and the one advantage that stands way above others is maneuverability.
For example in Battlefield 3 the US F18 Hornet will always win handily in a 1v1 dogfight versus a RU S35 Flanker when equally skilled pilots are involved. However the F18 only has about a 3-5% advantage in turning radius.
In PS2 the Scythe has a massive turn radius advantage. Possibly as high as 50% or even more. Couple that with the instantaneous acceleration when afterburners are used and it seems that the Scythe is simply on another level.

Maybe the developers intend Vanu to have dominant air, the NC have the dominant ground, and the TR have a balanced army.

I've suspected for a long time that the Scythe would be the dominant air-to-air fighter. It would also dominate the ground as long as it keeps it's maneuverability advantage.

The advantage isn't something that can be balanced out with weaker weaponry. Armor might compensate for this but the Scythe would have to be almost a one hit wonder to compensate for it's insane maneuverability. So yeah, chances are it's due for a nerf. Or the other two aircraft are due for a buff. Personally I'd rather the Mosquito and Reaver get buffs to help compensate.

The Scythe will probably be my primary focus in the beta because I am very interested in air combat in PS2. Sniping will take up a secondary while LA a third because infantry has always been more fun then vehicles for me.

As it stands, I'd want the Mosquito's maneuverability to be uped a bit and the Reaver to get heavier armor. Mosquito's speed will help compensate for it's disadvantage in maneuverability against a Scythe, and the Reaver's armor might give it the needed edge against the Scythe.

Though these buffs would make the Reaver the Scythe's favorite food as far as air-to-air is concerned.

Originally Posted by Noctis

If you don't overwhelm the Scythe in a single attack he'll simply turn and shoot you while you boost away, which might and might not burn your back. Gotta check AA systems first and guns mounted.
Our reaver would simply stand still at safe range and shot down any spinning UFO.

The Scythe is faster then the Reaver, and maneuverability makes approach easy. You'd stand about the same chance as a Mosquito would trying to AB away after initial encounters.

The Scythe won't be as tough in air-to-ground assaults though. Ground based AA doesn't have the same target tracking issues as air-to-air does which makes maneuverability a bit less use full. Scythe would be too busy maneuvering to engage the ground threat and would have to use Mosquito tactics in order to take it out (attack on the approach and AB the eff out).

Noctis · 2012-08-04, 07:29 PM

The only thing you could attempt to do with your red-black bug, is charging at top speed from max distance at slighter higher altitude not pointing directly while unleashing a full payload then afterburning straight past him.
Just don't charge directly or almost directly, but at the flank, then correct your flight and travel past the target.

Speed needs large spaces of manouver.

LegioX · 2012-08-04, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Noctis

The only thing you could attempt to do with your red-black bug, is charging at top speed from max distance at slighter higher altitude not pointing directly while unleashing a full payload then afterburning straight past him.
Just don't charge directly or almost directly, but at the flank, then correct your flight and travel past the target.

Speed needs large spaces of manouver.

To bad you cannot gain/lose energy while diving or climbing right now. Maybe it will be fixed, but for now, when you dive, you cannot gain speed.

adddemon · 2012-08-04, 07:46 PM

its really maneuverable and i imagine its going to wreck any lone wolf pilots that try and fight it. but its going to die pretty much instantly to things it cant see, like flak maxes, at least thats my guess.