Class System discussion (NDA lifted)

texico · 2012-08-31, 12:41 PM

Thoughts on the class system now that the NDA is lifted? How did you find it?

EvilNinjadude · 2012-08-31, 12:45 PM

It's okay really, i like the classes and stuff, and it feels more intuitive than whiners say.

What I find weird is the way Weapons unlock (or seem to) because I can't find out how.

EVILPIG · 2012-08-31, 12:47 PM

I like the kits. They barely have any of their options unlockable atm. For those who ask, you unlock weapons in the Store, the little shopping cart when you hit Esc. I know many miss the open inventory system, but the kits are there to provide a level of balance.

vVRedOctoberVv · 2012-08-31, 12:48 PM

I like the classes fine. I'm sure it's easier to balance than an inventory system.

@EvilNinja

You unlock Weapons through the store (gold shopping cart, bottom left of screen) by using Auraxium. Most weapons are not available yet, so there isn't much to see.

EVILPIG · 2012-08-31, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv

I like the classes fine. I'm sure it's easier to balance than an inventory system.

@EvilNinja

You unlock Weapons through the store (gold shopping cart, bottom left of screen) by using Auraxium. Most weapons are not available yet, so there isn't much to see.

Bottom Right.

EvilNinjadude · 2012-08-31, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv

You unlock Weapons through the store (gold shopping cart, bottom left of screen) by using Auraxium. Most weapons are not available yet, so there isn't much to see.

Weird thing was, on one server all 4 (FT, Infantry, Vehicle, and Air) were unlocked without me ever having had to purchase them, and on the other server, i only had the Anti-Infantry and Anti-Vehicle cannon.

Thanks for the info though, i'll take a look. I thought it was the Station Cash store, which would have been useless to me. My fault.

EVILPIG · 2012-08-31, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

Weird thing was, on one server all 4 (FT, Infantry, Vehicle, and Air) were unlocked without me ever having had to purchase them, and on the other server, i only had the Anti-Infantry and Anti-Vehicle cannon.

Thanks for the info though, i'll take a look. I thought it was the Station Cash store, which would have been useless to me. My fault.

That's because character made prior to the patch that added the FT and Burster certs got them for free, so they did not have to unlock them.

EvilNinjadude · 2012-08-31, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

That's because character made prior to the patch that added the FT and Burster certs got them for free, so they did not have to unlock them.

Derp.

DaMann · 2012-08-31, 01:07 PM

Its ok just because nothing is available to unlock yet. But i can see the potential when browsing the store. Upon release it will be much easier to specialize and have counters for everything.

Pvt Badger · 2012-08-31, 01:30 PM

Strictly Light Assault. I hardly even think of changing classes. I guess because I love the Jetpack.

VaderShake · 2012-08-31, 01:42 PM

I think the class system provides some guidance for players and commits them to specialization. However I am a fan of just having an armory to equip yourself how you wish but I am sure it would result in people figuring out what will score you the most points and everyone would copy it.

I would like to see how diverse and deep they could make each class and introduce a hybrid class system down the line by spending cert points on some "training" to allow a few key crossover abilities or weapon access.

Figment · 2012-08-31, 02:25 PM

The problem I have with the class system is that it's "everyone is a generalist" system.

I don't see specialists, I see people that play one rigid class one second and an entirely different class the next second and another the next and the next and the next.

There's no long term strategical advantages you can have over someone else because they can counter whatever you throw at them at all times as long as they have an equip term nearby (equip terms, which btw, resets health and shields BOTH instantly - this wasn't true in PS1 as that only reset armour if you changed to another armour class).

In PS2, there are no personalized playstyles whatsoever anymore. Yes, you can customize, but so does everyone else and they will all default to the most flexible and low TTK weapon setups. Which there aren't that many off.

Consider this:

In PS1, my certs were:

Suits:
Infil Suit
Standard
Agile
Rexo

Weaponry:
Basic Weapons (mostly used Magscat Pistol, but also used Rexo Dual Suppressor whenever without AV or SA)
Medium Assault (mostly used Sweeper + Gauss)
AV up until the Flaklet, since then I've used the Flaklet and Rocklet (never use Thumper), thus Special Assault. Though many times I had neither if I for instance opted for the Phantasm instead.

Later got the HSR, Scorpion and Flamethrower through veterancy. Never had any need for those, used them now and then, but always considered them "meh". Not just that they wern't me, they trivialised and undermined the entire cert system, just like the free Rexo did.

Support Certs:
Hacking
Advanced Hacking
Expert Hacking
Engineering
Combat Engineering
Advanced Engineering (Fortification/Assault if not just Fortification)

Vehicles:
ANT
AMS
ATVs (Fury/Bassilisk), sometimes Switchblade if spare cert point
Deliverer
Router
Sunderer
Thunderer

That was it. In PS1 I had NO access to MAX units, HA, sniper rifles (till free HSR - stupid gift), Aircav, Liberators, Galaxies or Lodestars, BFRs, tanks, buggies or medic certs and then some. None of that. Ever. You could kill me 500 times and I'd still not bring any of the above. I always relied on my ATV for travelling long distance, which made me slower than most other players to respond.

I was a specialist.

Now though?

In PS2 I have standard access to everything that's even remotely possible to consider OP by default. I've used more MAXes (AA, because I still hate the cheapness of AI MAXes, but mostly since I need a swift AA option more than AI) in PS2 in a single week than in my entire playtime for PlanetSide 1 (8 years). Why? Because everyone is a UNIMAX noob, by default.

In PS2, I'm a generalist. I don't have any sense of individual specialisation. The certification within classes are not actually providing you creative capacity through combining options, nor give you any sense of specialization. Unless you think having a 7x zoom is a specialisation over 4x zoom. I mean. Woop. My gawd man aren't you specialized. Oh wait, I spend 20 CP (earned in a day being offline) and now I'm just as specialised as you. Woopdidoo.

They're just alternatives and they're very straightforward at that. You can't dedicate yourself to play your character the way you want to. Some people may think tweaking your gun is interesting. It's about as interesting to me as tuning a car in Gran Tourismo 5: I don't care. I can kill with any gun, so why should I care? All I want is a gun that allows me to work in close proximity and medium range alike so I can be flexible. Done. I can max that weapon to my liking for just 35 CP and I'll never even considering buying one of the alternatives to it that does 1 hp more damage per shot but drops off a meter sooner. I mean, who cares? What they do instead is give you the option to get a weapon with a 8x zoom, making it impossible to use your iron sights at close range. That's called overspecialization, IMO, even though it's not really a character specialization, as it's just a gun that let's you be better at one particular range of fighting.

In the meantime, every time you hear people defend the PS2 class system, they bring up the supposedly standard post-BR20 "standard" setup and super-soldiers. Given we had two MA rifles and one shotgun, one BW rifle and two HA, one of which was hardly available and the other ES, to pick from and where only one rifle was really an option, while HA was always better than MA Shotguns, that wasn't really that surprising, was it? I feel like I, who was a dedicated infiltrator, not OP at all but capable of doing what I liked doing and being effective at just that, have been completely penalized for a few people simply using the system as it was intended and optimized within the very few options it provided. If you make what you have in PS2 available more freely per class, but restrict what people can use in entire playsessions on the long term, only THEN will you see true specialisation and unique playstyles emerge.

Given I can do as much NOW as a noob in PS2 as I would be if I ever gotten BR40, just in a more restricted class system, this system is just one step less worse than BR40, but it's horrible nonetheless. In PS1 I had to make due and be creative with the weapons I had at my disposal as above. In PS2, I can just take the lazy way out and grab an AI MAX.

Just give me a BR20ish cert system and just expand the amount of optional weapons and you've actually got a far more balanced and creative and specialized system than the class system will ever be. There should be a maximum number of certs you can use and people should unlock classes and vehicles too.

It's the only way you can truly specialise and personalise your play style and become known for being a certain kind of player with their own playstyle in a sea of players. What we will see in PS2 is loads of cookie cutter classes where everyone is the same and can become any type of enemy you can think of. How the hell is that specialization?

Everyone is the same now and even if they get different weapons, they will still all be the same, because a different weapon means crap as the type of weapon is locked and pre-determined per class, while switching class is common for everyone.

Bags · 2012-08-31, 02:31 PM

I absolutely hate it. My group of 10 friends (usually no more than 6 on at a time) is forced to have 1 medic and 1 engineer. I also find it does not foster teamplay; I cannot repair maxes or revive/heal players while playing HA; how do I team work as HA? So many times I have had the instinct to pull out my medapp or bank only to remember lolclasses.

I also find it hard to teamwork with other random people. No one heals people they dont know or drops ammo for those they don't know.

IT really seems to punish small groups, because large groups will have all the classes they need. Large oganzied outfits will still use teamwork with or without a class system, but small outfits cannot use teamwork without sacrificing a lot of fire power with this class system.

Class system or not, my group of 5 buddies and I are gonna work together. The difference is with a class system we're screwed unless someone plays medic and engineer. The class system reduces our teamwork if anything.

Figment · 2012-08-31, 02:33 PM

What Bags said has also been one of my major complaints. Small groups are punished because they can't be as diversive as other teams, while they're also outnumbered.

Haro · 2012-08-31, 02:56 PM

I could see two major improvements to the system: 1. Some type of added limitation for max units and 2. A cool down on equip terminals. I do agree with figment and bags (sigh) that these things need balancing (unless we see a good, infantry-based counter to the max, then we might not need 1.)

I'm not particularly missing the old ps1 cert and inventory system, it was never my primary interest in planetside, and in the long term I think the class system is much better for balanced gameplay, and general user experience. I like being able to mess around with different classes without needing to go through ridiculously long and unnecessary decertification. On the other hand, since this is apparently such a HUUUUGE deal, I would be interested in seeing if they expand customization to allow for some hybrid classes.

Ultimately, I like the current system more. Light Assault and sniper infiltrators practically guarantee that. But the system is far from perfect and has plenty of room to grow.